Straight Talk presenter Eugene Chan (left) interviews Founder and Director of Performing Arts Asia Professor Fredric Mao on TVB, Oct 3, 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Founder and Director of Performing Arts Asia Professor Fredric Mao is on the show this week.

Prof Mao told us that Hong Kong can be an arts and cultural hub and the performing arts can contribute to the city’s future. He says Cantonese opera could be used as a springboard for further development and become Hong Kong’s signature. He urges the government to pay more attention to the software (the people) and to focus more on the substance of the work, rather than just getting the job done.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Professor Fredric Mao:

Chan: Good evening I'm Eugene Chan and a warm welcome to Straight Talk. Our guest this evening is Professor Fredric Mao, founder and director of Performing Arts Asia. Prof Mao is Hong Kong's “Godfather of Drama” and has had extensive performing and directing experience for over 50 years on both the local and international stage. In 2004, he received a Bronze Bauhinia Star for his contributions to Hong Kong performing arts and has been named Best Director at the Hong Kong Drama Awards no less than five times. He has mentored aspiring talents and pioneered the first ever Cantonese Opera degree program at Hong Kong Academy of Performing Arts. Even now, he continues to lead groundbreaking projects as Artistic Director of the Jockey Club, Mao Chun Fai Innovative Works in Theatre Scheme. This evening, we have invited Prof Mao to talk to us about how performing arts can contribute to Hong Kong's future. Welcome, Fredric!

Mao: Thank you, thank you for having me.

Chan: Fredric, perhaps we will start with a little bit of your background. You were born in Shanghai then grew up in Hong Kong, studied theatre arts in the US where you received a Master of Fine Arts degree before making your debut at Broadway in 1976. That must have been quite an achievement for an Asian as a minority at that particular time. So, what was performing in the US as a minority like? Can you share with the viewers?

Mao: Sure. Actually, I was very fortunate. Because when I finished studying in America, I was able to join the professional theatre community, and start as an actor, director, and eventually even for a short period of time to be the artistic director of an American company, which of course, I learned a great deal there. And then further than that, I got a chance to work on Broadway. And not only on Broadway, but working with the top rank director, composer, lyricist, Harold Prince and Stephen Sondheim. And I learned another great step for … to know about the business as well.

Chan: Did you encounter much discrimination?

Mao: I never noticed any discrimination. Often people asked me why? Do they? You don't have it? You don't find there’s any discrimination? And I said maybe, maybe not. But maybe yes. Because I didn't feel it that way. Because I was born in China. I was educated in Chinese culture. And I know what I got in my pocket.

Chan: Right.

Mao: And I think that gave me confidence...

Chan: Exactly.

Mao: …yes, to study there.

Chan: So, when the Hong Kong Academy of Performing Arts, the APA was established in 1985, you moved back to Hong Kong with an invitation to be the head of Acting at the School of Drama. 

Mao: That's right. 

Chan: And you have been involved in training many esteemed actors that we know in Hong Kong, such as Anthony Wong, Tse Kwan Ho, Louisa So and Alice Lau, I think the list will go on. How good are our stars, as compared to those international stars on Broadway, or the West End?

Mao: Well, I think they are just as good. If not, even they have their own particular characteristics of Hong Kong, young talents, you know. And so when I came back to Hong Kong to teach, I didn't bring everything from America and just sort of just laid on them, you know, I have to find out who they are, and how to teach them how to become an artist themselves. And they did, and which I'm very proud of today, actually many of the young performers, actually not only on stage, but backstage as well. They are the true Hong Kong talents that I witnessed.

Chan: Great to know that we've got first class talent in both the front and also backstage as well. So, Hong Kong being a cosmopolitan city, and now we have world class performing venues. Why are we not reaching out internationally, let alone say Asia, for performing arts. So, what is the missing link? Why are we not up there with the West End? And Broadway?

Mao: Okay. There's several reasons, one of the most obvious reasons to me in my experience is that we tend to stay in the very early stage of development, which is the government giving the funding and subsidizing the people to get started, which is good. Otherwise, we don't have the performing arts foundation today that we established, but actually we have to move forward. We have to go forward. And that is something we are missing here. For example, we don't … we seldom really introduce ourselves to the world, not only just to the including to our own country, to China, you know, we often are the one thing my experience was, I brought the first Cantonese drama production to China, not only for cultural exchange, educational reason, but for public performance, which works.

Chan: Right. So, Frederic, if I'm going to ask you, where's Hong Kong placed on the international stage of performing, you will say, at the early stage, right?

Mao: Yes.

Chan: Do we have room to move forward?

Mao: … but we are ready.

Chan: So, we can move forward.

Mao: We are ready. We need the government's promotion, the government's support, we also need a society to believe in how to use us to, as a window to introduce who we are.

Chan: I mean, we do travel around the world when people love travelling. And when they go to London and New York, they always look for the Phantom of the Opera, like Les Misérables, Evita or Cats are all major attractions there. But Hong Kong being a cosmopolitan financial hub, just like London and New York, we don't have anything similar. So, how can performing arts contribute to this to sort of diversify our city's identity not only as a financial hub, and also be an attraction for international cultural tourism? What can we do?

Mao: Now, based on what you said, I believe that you are talking about the creative industry, or the cultural industry, you can even say that, and that is something we need to do now. And we don't need to imitate the West, in terms of Broadway or West End, because they developed based on their own genes. We have our own genes, we have to know what we got, what we are worth it, to introduce to people, for example, later, we can talk about that our traditional Chinese Theatre, which is something if we come in make it more contemporary, and that can reach the modern audience, that the young audience, then we are moving forward, really introducing what kind of things we can do.

Chan: Right, you know, Hong Kong government, we are trying to do these night vibes … the Hong Kong campaign is trying to pull up the economy, and I don't see many Chinese opera performing arts being involved. Do you think we will develop some sort of a good show one day that can be part of this?

Mao: There's one reason that we don't see that many, because when we aren't doing what they're doing is with this government support, we tend to think I'm talking about the Cantonese opera now tend to stay standstill, which is not enough for to reach the majority of the audience, not even talking about going abroad, or talking about to China, but even for local general audience. You know, there's a, there's a gap, you know, so we need to use the tradition, but to use it as the agent for changes.

Chan: Right. So, Professor, before we go to the break, I'm going to ask you the last question, as you know, arts and culture's creative industry to many is very abstract, and there's only a niche group of people that have interest in that. So, what value can say in particular performing arts bring to the Hong Kong society?

Mao: Well, in, in when in the old days in the Chinese, we are talking about performing arts is bringing us that, you know, the truth of our life, the beauty of life and the virtue of life, and even to pursue that. That will make Hong Kong something very special. And we need to do that. This is our job to do it.

Chan: Right, Fredrick. Let's take a break now. But viewers do stay with us. We will be right back!

Performing Arts Asia founder Professor Fredric Mao speaks during the Straight Talk show on TVB, Oct 3, 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Chan: Thank you for staying with us. And we have Professor Fredric Mao with us talking about how performing arts can contribute to Hong Kong's future. So, Professor, in the first half, you said, it's very important for city to have our own identity, so that we are united to move forward. And I know that your passion is Cantonese opera, and you were the Founding Chair of the School of Chinese Opera in the APA. What actually characterizes Cantonese opera and how is that different to other Chinese opera like the Beijing opera or the Shanghai opera, in short.

Mao: Chinese opera is very special, and especially the Cantonese opera, and from the very beginning is also an art form that is very open, and very free to absorb things from the old and new the east and west, you know, in the olden days when our pioneers like to ... And he used piano, in the music in his orchestra, as well as the violin, which is still using in Cantonese opera, you know. So, that's why I see the Cantonese opera is one of those art forms that we can explore, to do … find the innovative development.

Chan: Right. You know, in 2009, the Cantonese opera was included in a UNESCO representative list of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity. And in 2019, this Xiqu Center was built for that further promotes this rich heritage. So what … how good is our local production to the Hong Kong? And do we have the talent that we need to attract international audience?

Mao: Right, our local Cantonese opera troops has been very actively performing these days, because the government is really, the current government is really fully supporting the development, the further development but and I think what is lacking is that the Cantonese opera community itself tend to stay stand still, you know. So, people like me, who loves to traditional theatre, that are Chinese traditional theatre, which I have a very … I grew up with it, you know, and today, especially today in Hong Kong, I think it's important, we use the tradition as a springboard for the further development, which makes our Cantonese opera or traditional Chinese Theatre can match the modern audience to be in sync with them.

Chan: So, how popular is this genre in Hong Kong right now?

Mao: Now, again, my days from the APA that the Chinese opera school, I find that the young people today are still inspired to do a Chinese opera, which is amazing, you know, in today. And so I think that it's very important to join them, to bring them together to explore the new ways to do the Cantonese opera, which can be combined both the old and the new. And the thing is about Chinese opera, which one other thing is very important, which is the whole western theatre is really very keen on to explore, but they can’t, they can’t because that doesn't belong to them. Right? It belongs to us. So, we have the, we have the responsibilities to be in charge to move forward to advance.

Chan: Fredric, from what you just telling me that suddenly I think of Hong Kong having this great asset that we have to use.

Mao: Exactly.

Chan: We have this, as I said earlier that the night vibes campaign, we need to look at more programs for our population, if this genre is getting the standing with the youth. If we have in the West wanting to know more about us, this will be an excellent way to attract international tourists, especially now we have the Xiqu Centre.

Mao: Exactly. Exactly. You know I've been involved with the West Kowloon, the development as well as the many different things that the government is trying to do. But eventually I think that we as practitioners with Cantonese opera or theatre practitioners, we have to take in charge of ourselves to move forward. Right, you know, and that's our job and special for today, you know, because today maybe you think that I'm distracting you from the things you're talking about, the AI age is coming. And, and but the performance, performing arts is one of them virtue about it is that the real content the human contact. You know, like the Japanese director, Suzuki, we say that we have to probably be the last place we can have human energy, animal energy contact.

Chan: Right. So, Professor, I mean, thank you for being so passionate about the whole thing. And it has been said that Hong Kong’s been a cultural desert, but now we have the West Kowloon Cultural District. And now Hong Kong has been part of the 14th Five Year Plan of our country. So, we are now on its way to being an international arts hub. Do you think all this is coincidental? Or do you think this is all we have been part of the plan all along? What do you think?

Mao: I think it comes along. It's not something maybe we planned. But I think that we have to realize this is happening. And that's why I said early that I embraced the mission that we got about the meeting of the exchange of the East and West, because this is exactly what Hong Kong can be in charge of.

Chan: Right. So far, from what you're saying, I think we should be very positive, with you pushing behind and with the unity of the whole profession will do well in the sector to help Hong Kong to move along in the 14th Five Year Plan. But I could ask you some very direct questions, as this is Straight Talk.

Mao: Sure.

Straight Talk presenter Eugene Chan (left) interviews Performing Arts Asia founder Professor Fredric Mao on TVB, Oct 3, 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Chan: You know, the Western media often talks about the limits of free speech and creativity. And they say, because we have the national security legislation right now. So, is this limited to Hong Kong, performing arts in any way?

Mao: Now, I don't quite believe that, because I think that we as the arts artists, or whether we are the arts practitioners, we have to have our own principles. The principle was … I don't need to use the western standard, I just use the traditional Chinese standard is called 真善美, right that the truth of life, the beauty of life, and the virtue of life, just to pursue that. We are making great work.

Chan: Right. So you're saying there's nothing being limited in the performance arts industry, just because of this new law coming in?

Mao: Yeah. Because otherwise, we are only close ourselves. You know, in fact, for me, over the years, I study, I practice and I teach. And until today, I realized that we have to continue to learn about who we are. 

Chan: Right professor, you know artists, by nature, are more idealistic, and have romantic ideas about revolution, just like in other parts of the world. And as a result, during the 2019, social unrest in Hong Kong, some students from the APA were accused of being involved. So, how can the performing arts community contribute to the healing, the resilience and unity of a city right?

Mao: Now, we have to accept the fact that in the past, because Hong Kong was a colonial city, okay. And so in a way, the Western influence, Western education is very much there, and definitely will influence ourselves. Okay. But today, we have to realize that we have to move forward and to really re-learn who we are. Right, I feel in some way guilty about not introducing enough of our traditional Chinese history, literature, or traditional arts to the younger generation.

Chan: And Fredric, now we, Hong Kong, are going through some challenges economically. And after the COVID, three years of COVID. And I mean, everything starting from ground zero again, but I am very happy to hear that the young people embrace the new genre of Cantonese opera. Can you actually make this industrialize the whole sector? So, that becomes an actual economy on its own? Is it possible?

Mao: It's possible, but we'll have to realize that what we need to do is on our own, not just following slogans or some high wordings, you know, and that won’t work. Because you know, for example, how to tell we always talk about these days. Talk about how to tell a good Chinese story.

Chan: Hong Kong story as well.

Mao: A good Hong Kong story? Does everybody know what that means? I don't think so.

Chan: You know, we talked about the investments, you know, you see what do you mean?

Mao: Yes I see what you mean. So, investment from the private sector? 

Chan: I'm sure it's something that you look for. In the US, we know that they have the Rockefeller Foundation. So, what sort of private investment do we have in Hong Kong? I mean, are our big corporations into this at all?

Mao: You bring up is actually a very important question. Because earlier I didn't have the time to explain further, society has to also really re-learn about how to support the arts, because the arts and culture, it really is about us who we are. So, if the society would support that, and of course, they could be to do something to do with the government’s policy, how to, sort of pushing the society to support this, you know, for example, in America, the Rockefeller Foundation, you know, the government, are really pushing them to do that their job, you know, and even when I was studying in America in the last decade, not decade, last century, and they were already supporting the young people to do the work. 

Chan: Right, Fredric, we've now come to the end of the show. I think it's a very important time for you to talk to our Chief Executive John Lee Ka-chiu and our secretary for Culture, Sports and Tourism. Kevin Yeung, they told me they watch the program.

Mao: Oh, I see.

Chan: And then you said, you've been saying to us that the government had been doing a lot of things. We've got nine performing groups, and they're putting money into it. Tell them from your point of view, what can we do to make sure the performing arts industry becomes an important part of future Hong Kong?

Mao: Okay. I think the couple of things we would bring up, first of all, I think the government should pay more attention to the software than just the hardware. Because like, we always heard that theatre is made by people, not buildings. So, the software is what our strength is.

Chan: Right, one.

Mao: The second thing is to focus more on the content and the substance of the work, and not just a systematic approach to get the job done.

Chan: Right. Okay.

Mao: That's another thing. And the finally, the fun thing, even in the cultural permission that I will bring up that idea to share with everybody is the funding system, which is very good at the beginning,

Chan: Very, in short, I know that the government has been putting a lot of money into this, arts and culture, yeah. Are they putting their money in the right place?

Mao: Yes, right. They need to re-adjust, adjust to put more money into to really reward the target achievers.

Chan: Okay, right. Thank you, Fredric for a very enlightening discussion of the Performing Arts in Hong Kong. You have definitely highlighted for us how performing arts can contribute to the future of Hong Kong, and shapers into an East-Meets-West center of international cultural exchange. 

Viewers, allow me to share with you with a quote from Film Director Zhang Yi Mau, “Art is the voice of a nation's soul and through our creative endeavors, we shape the future of a great civilization.” Let's embrace fully all that Hong Kong arts and culture have to offer. Have a good evening and see you next week!