Carl Devlin, the Capital Works director of MTR Corporation, is on the show this week.
He explains in detail the future of all rail line development in the next 10 years, including Northern Link, Kwu Tung project, Tuen Mun South extension, and Tung Chung extension.
Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview of Carl Devlin:
Chan: Good evening! I'm Eugene Chan, and welcome to Straight Talk. Our guest is Carl Devlin, the Capital Works director of MTR Corporation Hong Kong. Since joining MTR in 2021, Devlin has led major railway extensions and operations projects. Drawing on decades of experience in large-scale infrastructure across the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Australia, the United States, Canada, and Japan. A seasoned project leader and fellow of the Hong Kong Institution of Engineers, Carl has held senior roles in transport, energy, and construction worldwide. We are going to be talking about some of MTR's new projects and how they are going to keep Hong Kong on track for the future. Welcome, Carl!
Importance of HK railway system, its performance
Chan: Carl, you know, MTR is ranked amongst the best railway operators in the world, and Hong Kong was recently ranked number one out of 50 cities in the world for public transport in a Timeout survey with an impressive 98 percent satisfaction rate amongst the locals. And of course, the success is mainly due to MTR’s safety, convenience, and reliability. So, what's the secret of success?
Devlin: It goes without saying that maintaining reliable and safe railway services is MTR's first and utmost priority and the minimum expectation of the public here in Hong Kong. We consistently maintain daily operations on all railway lines and deliver on on-time performance of 99.9 percent. This reliability rate in itself could set us amongst one of the leading rail operators in the world. But we know that this on its own is insufficient. Running a railway safely, reliably, and efficiently is the minimum that we should do. Creating value for the communities that the railway extends into, unleashing the potential for areas where railways are being built, new railways being built, is really what we see as a pivotal role of the corporation. And the opportunity to grow the network for Hong Kong and is really what we're all about.
Chan: Carl, you know, with such a good global recognition, it is clear that MTR plays a very central role in Hong Kong's city daily life. So, maybe you can explain to viewers how important, in your view, the railway system is to Hong Kong and the people here?
Devlin: Well, the corporation has just celebrated its 45th anniversary last year. Since MTR commissioned the first railway line in 1979, the railway network has continued to expand. Currently, the corporation operates nine heavy rail lines and 99 stations currently covering Hong Kong Island, Kowloon, and the New Territories. We're building, operating, and maintaining one of the most complex public transport systems in the world. It handles over 5 million passenger trips daily, and this comprises over 40 percent of Hong Kong's public transportation patronage.
Chan: Wow! So, it's quite a major part of Hong Kong; it’s really the MTR, isn't it?
Devlin: It's the heartbeat of Hong Kong.
Chan: Right. So, how well will you say MTR is performing today? I mean, I know that local people are very impressed with 98 percent satisfaction. How well do you think you are performing? Or can you do better?
Devlin: I think we can always do better, and the public in Hong Kong always expects us to do better. But having worked and lived in other parts of the world, the public transport system here in Hong Kong is truly world-class.
Chan: Carl, I know that, I've read your background, you have worked in different cities, and people in Hong Kong often are … I won’t use the word demanding … we have high expectations. I mean, they want the MTR to arrive on time. They don’t want to wait for too long. Can other cities in the world do as good as Hong Kong in that sense?
Devlin: Hong Kong, I think, has, based on my experience around the world, of all the best public transport systems in the world, the interconnectivity connecting from one line to another is seamless. The wait time between one train and the next is extremely short. I think Hong Kong people have grown up with the MTR network and have taken this very high, exceptional performance as the norm.
Expanding rail network to support future HK development
Chan: As you said, MTR has been there for, like, 45 years, and we have seen more stations built over the years, and I know that there have been two major railways that have just been finished not that long ago. But then, since you're the Capital Works director, I know that you've got a lot of plans for Hong Kong. So, maybe you can share with the viewers which the most recently built lines are, just to refresh our memories, and what your plans are? And why are such plans?
Devlin: So, in 2021, MTR opened the Tuen Ma Line, which has rejuvenated older parts of Hong Kong, like To Kwa Wan and Kowloon City, with direct rail connections to East and West Kowloon and East and West New Territories. Then in 2022, the East Rail Line was extended across the harbor, directly connecting Admiralty, which is the financial hub of the city, across this hundred-year-old railway. This railway extension also extends directly from the cross-boundary into the city center, greatly increasing the flow of people between Hong Kong and Shenzhen.
Chan: Yeah, so those are the two lines that have been built. What are your plans coming up in the next 10 years?
Devlin: Coming up. So, construction works on several new railway projects have started progressively since mid-2023. The Tung Chung Line Extension and the Tuen Mun South Extension projects will extend the current Tung Chung Line and Tuen Ma Line, respectively, connecting with existing communities. Kwu Tung Station, which is going to be between Lok Ma Chau and Sheung Shui, on the East Rail Line, and the Hong Shui Kiu Station between Tin Shui Wai and Siu Hong stations on the Tuen Ma line, are the two first for us here in MTR, because it's the first time where we're building new stations between existing stations on the network, and also the first time where we're building atop existing operating railways and on existing railroad viaducts. We're also going to be adding the Oyster Bay Station between Sunny Bay Station and the Tung Chung Station on the Tung Chung line. And just last month, we signed a project agreement with the government to start work on the Northern Link Main Line and to start the detailed design and planning for the Northern Link Spur Line, which is a cross-boundary railway.
Chan: Right. So, Carl, you have listed out different lines, which will be built from 2027 onwards, up to 2034. I mean, those are the new lines coming up. So, how do you see this coinciding with the development of Hong Kong? How important are these new stations?
Devlin: So, these new railway projects are developed to support the government's infrastructure plans, which are critical to the long-term development of Hong Kong. These extension projects will provide direct rail connection to some existing communities like the Tung Chung West and Tuen Mun South, and put them on the comprehensive railway network with a much enhanced connectivity with different parts of Hong Kong. The new station projects, on the other hand, have been strategically located to serve new development areas, which are planned or already under development. More importantly, Hung Shui Kiu Station and San Tin Station with the Northern Link will later provide interchange stations with cross-boundary railways like the Northern Link Spur Line and Hung Shui Kiu to Qianhai Rail Link, as well as serving the local development areas. So, they're really critical to the long-term development of Hong Kong.
Chan: Right. Carl, you know, the actual Northern Link has drawn a lot of attention from the public, and we all know that there's a new area of development for Hong Kong's future. The Director of Railways actually said earlier that mainland standards will be introduced in the Northern Link, and hopefully, we'll sort of reduce the cost and the time. Can you elaborate on how this can be achieved?
Devlin: So, first of all, let me just maybe explain a little bit about the Northern Link. The Northern Link will comprise of Kwu Tung Station on the East Rail Line, the Main Line, and the Spur Line. It will connect the East Rail Line with the Tuen Ma Line, creating a loop and forming the backbone of the mass transport system in the Northern Metropolis area. The Northern Link itself will provide substantial transport capacity, and contribute to catalyzing large-scale housing developments, commercial, and community projects, supporting the Hong Kong government's vision for the Northern Metropolis, and will be a key driver in Hong Kong's strategic growth, creating jobs and urban development. In terms of the project itself, the mainline in Spur Line will involve constructing eight new stations. Two of them will be terminal and interchange stations. There's also an additional interchange station, which will be a cross-boundary interchange station, as well as approximately 17 kilometers of railway tunnels, making it one of the largest-scale projects amongst the projects we're currently undertaking. In terms of how we can drive these projects forward, the Spur Line through the holistic approach that we're taking on to the Northern Link in conjunction with the government will be delivered approximately two years earlier as a holistic project than if we deliver them separately. In addition, there are a number of synergies that we achieve through constructing the projects as one project rather than two. There are a number of facilities that we can optimize the design for, and optimize the rail sections where the lines come together. In addition, by building this project holistically, there are sections of the Spur Line and Main Line that could be constructed together, thereby minimizing the amount of work we would have to do in the restrictive non-traffic hours, which would then prolong the project.
Chan: Okay, time for our short break now, and we will be back with more Straight Talk.
Time and costs in delivering railway projects
Chan: Carl Devlin, the Capital Works Director of MTR Corporation, is with us, and we have been talking about our railway networks and how we can ensure Hong Kong's railway remains world-class well into the future. So, Carl, thank you very much for telling us about all the works that you have planned for the next 10 years, and how it is going to serve the purpose of Hong Kong's development. One area that we didn't get around to asking you, to get some answer from you, is that the Director of Highways actually said that we want to do things with more of the mainland standards, that is, hopefully we can save some cost and time. So, how are we going to actually achieve that?
Devlin: So, the Corporation has extensive experience working with standards across many jurisdictions around the world. And we fully support the government's dual innovations in policy and technologies, and will be using both local, mainland, and overseas technologies in taking the project forward. This, combined with the use of innovation and technology, will help us drive cost and time efficiencies as we take the project forward.
Chan: As you know, the Hong Kong project team comprises mainly of Hong Kong engineers. How are they going to adapt to these new mainland standards?
Devlin: Mainland standards, the mainland national standard is actually an international standard, and the Hong Kong standards are also international standards. So, we have extensive use of working with different standards in different jurisdictions. We will work very closely with the government to work through the initiatives that we will take forward that will substantially help us drive cost and time efficiencies.
Chan: I mean, as I brought up earlier in part one, I said Hong Kong people are … I won't use the word “demanding”, they have high expectations of things that happen. And I saw that some of the projects that you have within the next 10 years, people are a little bit impatient to wait for projects to come, even in 3 to 5 years. So, is there anything under your directive that you will be able to do to make the project finish earlier?
Devlin: So, one of the key initiatives that we have deployed to drive the project forward is the use of innovation and technology. We have deployed digital technologies extensively on the new projects, and we are utilizing building information modelling to coordinate the civil, architectural, electrical, and mechanical disciplines of the projects, in terms of our planning, all the way through from the design stage through to construction. The use of technologies like this allows us to explore advanced innovations through the use of design for manufacturing assembly or modulating integrated construction, which is effectively the use of pre-cast, pre-made, pre-fabricated elements, components, modules, where effective for when we build things in a factory, we transport them to site, and then we assemble them like you would do if you were assembling some Lego. For example, on the Kwu Tung Station project, which is a very complex project, as I said earlier, we are constructing this on top of the operational East Rail Line. We have made significant advances in driving the structural completion of the project by using this kind of initiative. And compared to traditional institute work, it is substantially faster. It is also safer and drives quality and efficiency within the project.
Chan: Right. For how many years have you adopted this new modular pre-built unit into the system?
Devlin: We are driving this progressively as the projects progress. As we get deeper into these new projects, we are using it more and more. For example, on the Hung Shui Kiu project, we are looking to achieve 80 percent of the project to be manufactured off-site.
Chan: That means it will be a lot quicker, a lot more reliable. How about the cost? Will this increase the cost?
Devlin: There are some increased costs in using design for manufacturing and assembly, but when you look at it from a holistic point of view, it drives a faster completion of the project, so overall, the project will be more cost-efficient.
Chan: Let's talk about the Northern Link that you explained to us earlier. We know that it is going to take some time because it is a huge area, and then you have a lot of challenges to tackle. What will be the major challenges that you think from the rail point of view? What are your main obstacles to getting it done right away?
Devlin: It is, as you said, a substantially large and complex project. It comprises constructing eight stations, as I said earlier. Two of them are interchange stations, which means that the new stations have to be built alongside the existing stations during the operation. There are about 17 kilometers of railway tunnels, which is why it is a very large and complex construction undertaking. It is clearly the demand from Hong Kong public for us to construct these railways faster, means we need to look for more innovative ways of coming up with ways to reduce the time even further. The complexity at both ends of interchanging with the existing railway, there is a cross-boundary railway that we have to build as a part of the Spur Line crosses the boundary and extends to Huanggang Port. So, we have got to work in two different jurisdictions, both in the Chinese mainland, as well as in Hong Kong. And ultimately, we have got to integrate a seamless railway that operates in the same way that every other railway in Hong Kong currently operates.
Chan: Right. Apart from innovation and technology initiatives, you also have to look at different ways. So, I am sure you are continuously looking to improve and to speed up things. Do we have enough manpower? Do we have enough workers in Hong Kong to support your work?
Devlin: Construction labor is a topic that has been quite lively in the industry over the last few years. The workforce in Hong Kong is ageing, but one of the ways of addressing this and making sure that we have sufficient labor is by using innovation and technology, and things like design for manufacturing assembly, we are actually utilizing resources in factories in the mainland to manufacture large parts of the projects, and then we bring them to Hong Kong to assemble. So, by using digital innovation technology, new techniques, we can overall reduce the amount of manpower that we require going forward, compared to how we would have built this project maybe 20 years ago.
Chan: Right, but do we have enough workers to do it, despite all the innovation and technology? If the government in Hong Kong has an import labour scheme to bring in labor from the mainland, should we require specialist labor that we don't have here in Hong Kong?
Devlin: So far, on our new railway extension projects, we have broadly been able to construct them using local labor.
Continuous Enhancements to Meet Public Expectations
Chan: Right. All right, so we have talked about the next 10 years. And before the show, I asked you this question: Will MTR continue to develop after 10 years, and you told me that there are other projects. So, maybe you can let the viewers have a taste of what will happen if things go well beyond the next 10 years, where will ... will we see MTR in every corner of Hong Kong? Or only in certain parts?
Devlin: The Hong Kong government leads the transport planning here in Hong Kong, and MTR uses its experience and expertise gained over the last 45 years to support the Hong Kong government as it plans the projects. The Hong Kong government has a long-term blueprint, a transportation blueprint, where there are many other projects that are currently under planning. At MTR, we are closely monitoring this and providing the necessary support to the government. These projects are both medium-capacity railways, smart and green mass transit projects, projects like Kai Tak, East Kowloon, and also heavy rail projects, like the Central Kowloon Railway, that the government is currently considering.
Chan: I think more than once in our show today, I have mentioned that public expectations are always rising. I mean we know that it is also a strength of Hong Kong that we can always do better to meet expectations. So, how confident are you to say that MTR is going to meet all those projects in the next 10 years?
Devlin: As I said earlier, we have many projects already under construction, and quite a few of the projects have already entered the peak period of construction. Kwu Tung station is targeted to be completed in 2027. This will be the first of the stations to be commissioned under the new projects. We will follow that with the Tung Chung projects, where they are expected to open to the public in 2029. In 2030, Hung Shui Kiu station, the Tuen Mun South extension, and the Oyster Bay Station are expected to open for passenger service. So, in the next three to five years, we will be completing, we are targeting to complete five of the projects. And then the Northern Link itself, by bringing it together, we are going to start the work in phases, and the plan is to simultaneously commission both the main line and the Spur Line no later than 2034.
Chan: So, I mean, it looks like Hong Kong people can look forward to more new lines, and actually even more being planned and developed. So, maybe the last question I am going to ask you today is: looking ahead, you being the Capital Works director, what are your visions for Hong Kong's railways?
Devlin: Our vision is to really take these new railways to go beyond boundaries. It is about connecting as many communities as we can into the network to give the communities and the people of Hong Kong the greatest possible connection to what is the greatest public transport system in the world.
Chan: Yeah. I think we have to leave it there for now, and thank you, Devlin, for giving us a glimpse of how our railways are essential in helping Hong Kong to stay on track. The MTR has always stood for reliability and world-class service, but its role is also about shaping Hong Kong's future, building communities, boosting connectivity, and above all, living up to its mission to “Keep Cities Moving”. Thank you for joining us on Straight Talk, and have a good evening.
