Straight Talk presenter Eugene Chan (left) interviews Executive Council member Moses Cheng on TVB, Jan 23, 2024. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Moses Cheng, a member of the Executive Council, is on the show this week.

Cheng tells us how Hong Kong can get out of the economic doldrums and regain confidence in future, despite all the major challenges we're facing right now.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Dr Moses Cheng:

Chan: Good evening. I'm Eugene Chan and welcome to Straight Talk. We are privileged to have with us Dr Moses Cheng, member of the Executive Council. A seasoned lawyer, former member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council, and prominent public servant, his name is synonymous with dedication and leadership. Some of his major past public appointments include chairman of the Board of Education, and founding chairman of Insurance Authority, and chairman of the Council of the Hong Kong Baptist University, and founding chairman of the Hong Kong Institute of Directors. And currently he is chairman of the Council of the Hang Seng University of Hong Kong and Chancellor of Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui. For Cheng's contributions to the well-being and development of Hong Kong, he was awarded the Grand Bauhinia Medal by our government in 2016. And prior to that, the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire this evening. He brings a wealth of experience and insight to our discussion on the critical question, can we still be confident in Hong Kong's future? Welcome, Moses!

Cheng: Hi, Eugene!

Chan: The title of the show tonight is something that I've been talking to a lot of people saying that can we still be confident in Hong Kong's future? We've been through the social unrest, the pandemic, but now we seem to be facing more so-called political, economic and social problems in 2024. I'd like to get your take on these but we'll come back to this question at the end of the show. 

Cheng: Sure. 

Chan: Let's begin with the political issues. We have had the current government for one and a half years. 

Cheng: Yes. 

Chan: The overriding principle of patriots administering Hong Kong has been fully implemented with the final piece of the puzzle, having the District Council elections just been done recently. It seems like the transformation under the Basic Law is complete. So, my question to you is: are we now 100 percent safe? Will all the political problems disappear from now on? 

Cheng: I think it's difficult to say that it is 100 percent safe. I think nothing is 100 percent safe. But I think what I can say is that we are now in a situation where political bickering is no longer the major issue of the day. I think what we can see is that people are now back to discussion, I would say it is a really logical and sensible discussion as to how we can tackle the problems in Hong Kong. And also the problem that we're facing vis-a-vis the world. I think that's important in the sense that it's important for the proper development of Hong Kong. It is important for bringing young people to see that, there is hope in the future. There are opportunities, plenty of opportunities in Hong Kong, as we can see that Hong Kong is a place full of opportunities. However, I think it's political bickering and a lot of unnecessary over emphasis of the problems facing Hong Kong in its political system before that has sort of dampened people's confidence and trust in Hong Kong.

Chan: Right, Moses, you have been involved in Hong Kong's ... I mean, the overall scene since, like for decades, and you have seen sort of a gradual transition over the last few many, many years. And it's interesting, Hong Kong being an international city, that we never thought we would be involved in ... now being on the chessboard of the international world. So, how is this international, political, geopolitical stuff affecting Hong Kong in our development, in your opinion?

Cheng: I believe that a lot of people misunderstood what is actually happening in Hong Kong. The national security legislation being introduced by the Central Government to help Hong Kong to restore Hong Kong's law and order is being misinterpreted in a lot of sectors, in a lot of countries of the world, to say that the central government is now fully controlling Hong Kong. In fact, I think for all of us living in Hong Kong that I don't see that that's a change, but on the contrary, the disturbances, the worries, the dangers that we were exposed to during the period of unrest in 2019 and 2020. We've actually felt that the bringing of the national security legislation has restored law and order, restored Hong Kong to the position that we can all go back to a normal life to do what we need to do, to practice my profession to carry on trading in Hong Kong for students going back to their normal studies. So, I think that's what it is in Hong Kong, rather than taking away rights and privileges of the Hong Kong people.

Chan: There's one more area that CE has mentioned recently that the enactment of Article 23 should be done. Can you share your perspective on this? Because how would that change the actual legal and political landscape? Because a lot of people say that it's going to infringe or threaten many people's freedoms. I'm sure you don't agree with that, but how will you rebut that?

Cheng: I think people tend to forget the advantages of Hong Kong, the basic position of Hong Kong. Let me respond to your question by saying that “which country of the world does not have national security legislation?” And you studied carefully the provision, the current legislation and those that the government is proposing to bring in. They are no different to the national security provision in the statute books in any country of the world. I mean, some other countries would have even more stringent and stricter requirements to protect national security. I think it's basically I mean I am a very simple person, I want to go back to the basics. Now, who in the world would imagine that there is no law to protect the safety of our home from being invaded by unwanted elements. So, I think if you approach from the angle, and then we go back to the fundamentals in Hong Kong, the common law system, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, and then the need of the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt the actus reus and mens rea and that's the intention if they want to prove and prosecute you for a crime, and that's the burden of proof that they have to discharge and that burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt in court. And those are the protections that we have been enjoying for years, and we will continue to enjoy and that's safeguarded under the Basic Law.

Chan: Alright. Moses, mostly we're just talking about the national security law and also the sort of rationale behind why we need Article 23. But another thing I want to ask you and I'm sure the viewers are going to be thinking, “Alright, we agree with you, but what can we do to ensure our life will be as normal as it can?” Because the geopolitical situation is affecting our daily lives. Look at all the sort of sanctions or all the policies against Hong Kong hasn't been as favorable as before. So, what can people do about that?

Cheng: I think we need to first comfort ourselves. I mean, to regain our confidence in the system. I mean, looking at the cases tried in court, I mean prosecution under the national security legislation, and we see that there is no difference from any criminal prosecution that we've seen prior to the introduction of the national security legislation. So, we can have full confidence in the independence of the judiciary and the legal system that we have enjoyed for so many years and which is being safeguarded by them by the Basic Law. So, if we look at that, there is nothing for us to doubt that things would change, or life would be different upon the introduction of the legislation or future legislation pursuant to Article 23. 

Chan: Right, Moses, another thing that we always talked about is the government and the Hong Kong people must be connected. I mean, you now being the Executive Council member, you'll be able to see the full story from both sides. Do you think our government now is engaging the people enough or do you think we are communicating ... is the communication clear?

Cheng: I think the chief executive is much more ready to be engaged with the community. And I hope that more and more people in the government in the civil service would adopt the same attitude I think with a lot of the policies of the administration are very good policy, except that we need to explain to people, we need to have the patience we need to put in the time and effort to explain to people the introduction of new legislation or new policy being introduced, then people would understand the rationale behind it, and how these legislation would help to improve our lives. Now, if they can see the advantages, if they can see the positive sides of the introduction of these new policies and new legislation, then they will have confidence. So, I think it's really ... if we need to improve upon, it is really the communication with the people. The public education program, I think instead of just explaining to people the provision. We have to go to the extent of explaining to them, why do we need that legislation? Why do we need the new policy and what is the new policy and new legislation and how is that going to enhance the quality of life for all of us in Hong Kong?

Chan: Let's take a break now, viewers stay tuned. We will see you right back here on Straight Talk in just a few moments.

Executive Council member Moses Cheng attends the Straight Talk show on TVB, Jan 23, 2024. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Chan: Thank you for staying with us. Dr Moses Cheng is on the show this evening, and we have been talking about whether we can still be confident in Hong Kong’s future. So, Moses, in the first half you had said that categorically very clearly that the national security legislation and Article 23 is something a lot of countries, if not all, have that, and we should be very happy that we are getting that fixed hopefully soon. And that you think we should be comforted, not to be too worried about all these side issues that have sort of hinder our confidence. One thing I want to touch on is the actual economy. Many Hong Kong people, like myself, we are quite shocked to see that many shops are actually vacant in prime business districts, like Causeway Bay, or even Tsim Sha Tsui, even Central. And all the restaurants are not busy, and most of the chefs actually even leave the restaurant about 9:00 pm. There have been some recovery post-pandemic. Will you say this is going to be our new normal? Can the government do anything to sort of bring back more business activities?

Cheng: I think business activities cannot be brought back by government. I think business activity is pretty much dictated by the economy, by the vibrancy of the economy. I think right now what we are facing, not just in Hong Kong, but all over the world, is an economic recession, period. I think if we look back in history, recession occurred in a cycle. I think we are now in part of that cycle that we have to go through recession. But if we look back in the history, I think we can actually see that Hong Kong went out of recession better and stronger.

Chan: Right.

Cheng: And so if we were able to do that in the past, there is no reason why we will not be able to do that in this current round. And I am sure that with the resilience and perseverance of the people, and the ability to stand up after falling down, and that's what we've been good at for all this time. And I appeal to everybody that we should really remember that, and feel positive about that, and stand up and try to get back to the normal.

Chan: Right. Moses, we used to be called a “shopping paradise”.

Cheng: Right.

Chan: But every time we have friends coming back from overseas, they say “London is so busy”, “Bangkok is full of people”, Hong Kong seems to be the only place that is still suffering for the time being. And not to mention we have people ignoring Hong Kong's outlets’ sort of discounts and promotions, but by moving across the border. So, what can we do in this period? Are we going to wait for people to be tired of travelling over the border or the boundary so-called? What can we do?

Cheng: I think the business sector of Hong Kong have been very good in adapting to changes.

Chan: Right.

Cheng: And I'm sure that people who are operating various businesses in Hong Kong, retail or restaurant, or whatever business that they are, they would look for, they would … I think what we need to do is to cope with changes, we need to innovate, we need to look at the interests of people these days and try to cater for their interest, and try to entice them back to the market.

Chan: Right. Moses, another issue, I mean someone said we are facing a so-called “perfect storm”, with the rising interest rate, both our property market and our share market are definitely not performing as well as we want them to. And the government reserves are actually the lowest it has ever been. Will we make it out of this one?

Cheng: I believe that, as I said just now, we are now at the real bottom of the economic recession period. So, what we need to do is to stay vigilant and try to chip in, put in our best in reviving Hong Kong's economy. And that is everybody's responsibility, not just the government, not just the business sector, but everybody. So, I think Hong Kong people need to work together to bring us back to better times.

Chan: Since you're being so positive, I am going to ask you more sort of negative scenarios. 

Cheng: Okay. 

Chan: One major challenge we have, as in the last many shows the viewers would have picked up, is our manpower and talent shortages. The most public example the recent one, was the Cathay Pacific crisis, many travelers were affected.  Do you think this is just a short term hiccup? And is this going to affect our long-term development?

Cheng: I think, I will say, that the COVID pandemic really had … nobody had sort of expected that the effect brought about by the pandemic, I think it's a challenge much stronger than what people had expected. And we are now out of the COVID pandemic, I think we can now go back to the normal. In going back to the normal, I think Hong Kong people need to be a little bit … I mean we have to put our … how to say … we should plan for longer period, plan for a longer period rather than to look at short-term profit and then try to kill the golden goose. 

Chan: Right.

Cheng: And I think that is what we need to do: it is to look at what is the market, what is the market condition, and how we can cope with changes in the market, and try to innovate, and try to bring in positive impact into whatever we are doing. And thus, we need to change the way that we've been doing business, we need to change the way that we live, and try to cope with the challenges that we are facing.

Chan: Right. Moses, so we talked about the political issues, things that are more or less okay. But of course, we are going to deal with the geopolitical pressure. And you said we have to innovate and adapt to changes, look at more long-term development for the businesses. But how about our housing shortages? And also the waiting list for public housing is still long, not to mention we have an ageing population. We may not touch on that, but that is something that we have to keep in our mind, there are sort of ongoing problems. But I think more importantly, since you have been involved in education, do you think our youth is confident in Hong Kong's future?

Cheng: I think basically we need to educate our youth, so that they are future ready. Now right now I think what a lot of people is predominantly the objective of education, that is to get good grades in examinations, and therefore get into a good university, and graduate with a degree. Now that is important. I am not discounting that aspect. But on the other hand, that does not necessary mean that they are future ready. So, I think artificial intelligence and availability of big data, and the advance in technology, would displace a lot of jobs in the market. So, right now what we are seeing is the mismatch of skills and training, with what is needed in the job market. 

Chan: Right.

Executive Council member Moses Cheng (right) talks during the Straight Talk show on TVB, Jan 23, 2024. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Cheng: So, I think we need to look at that path in detail, and try to change and cope with this development, so that our youth are being equipped with the necessary values, with the necessary skills, that they are future-ready.

Chan: Right. Moses, I want a short answer from you because we know that in Hong Kong, we have 5, out of the major universities, are in the top 100. But why are our parents still sending our kids overseas? I mean why is that?

Cheng: I think basically they feel that going overseas and going into good universities … I mean by sending children overseas to secondary schools, they feel that they would get a better chance of enrolling their children into good universities. Now that is not necessary the case, if they would really look at the data, at the result of some of the performance our schools, in terms of getting admittance into major universities here in Hong Kong, as well as in different countries of the world. We will see that students studying overseas and students studying locally, would have the sort of similar and equal opportunity to get in. So, I think that is something, there could very well be the misunderstanding. Now I would say that for children who are ready to go abroad to study, you should send them abroad because you can broaden up their horizons, and broaden up their global perspective.

Chan: Right.

Cheng: But if they are not ready, don't send them away because it would not help them.

Chan: Right. Moses, I am going to ask you the last most important question. Maria Tam was also on the show a few weeks ago, and then she highlighted our strength, we are the second freest economy globally, 6th globally for rule and order, and 9th for absence of corruption, even better than above hundreds in rule of law, we are the fourth leading financial center in the world. Simple question is that enough to pull us through this? Going back to my question originally, can we still be confident in Hong Kong’s future with all that?

Cheng: My clear answer is an absolute yes because I think the fundamentals of Hong Kong have not changed. I think what we need to do is that Hong Kong people need to feel good themselves about Hong Kong, about themselves, then we would have a bright future waiting for us.

Chan: Right. Unfortunately, we have run out of time. Thank you, Moses, for your valuable insights, inspiring our confidence in Hong Kong's future. Winston Churchill said, “Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts.” Hong Kong is best at this, as Moses has said, and has done it over and over again. And that is why Hong Kong, we can be confident. Have a good evening and see you next week!