Straight Talk presenter Eugene Chan (left) interviews Icy Ku (center) and Terry Lam on the show on Aug 15, 2023. (PHOTO PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Further on our topic on youth and Hong Kong education, on Straight Talk this week, we have with us two more recent DSE graduates sharing their experiences, their insights into Hong Kong's education system etc. 

Both these students are elite DSE graduates of the St. Paul's Co-educational College, sharing with us how they prepare for the exam, what are their aspirations and more. Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview:

Chan: Good evening and thank you for joining us on Straight Talk. Last week, we began our discussion on the education system here in Hong Kong. We had a DSE graduate from a non-Chinese-speaking background, and the other graduate was a recent immigrant from the mainland. We talked about whether Hong Kong's education system is fit for purpose, and how well it caters for all our students from all different backgrounds and abilities. This evening we ask a question “Can Hong Kong's education system produce excellent world-class students?” And we have two more recent graduates, who will also share their experiences and insights. Let's welcome our guests. On the left is Miss Icy Ku, and on the right is Terry Lam. So, welcome to the show! Let's start by introducing yourself, and let's start with Terry.

Lam: Hi everyone, it's a pleasure for me to be on this television show. I am a graduate from St. Paul’s Co-educational College, and I just took the DSE this year. 

Chan: Right. Icy?

Ku: Hi everyone, and it is also my honor to be here for the show. And I am also a graduate from St. Paul’s Co-educational College, and also a DSE student this year.

Chan: Right. The reason why we invite both of you here tonight is not because I am an alumni of St. Paul’s Co-educational College, it is because both of you did very well in the DSE exams. You are both champions, or so-called perfect scorers. So, Terry, did you expect this good results?

Lam: Definitely not, because, well, in evaluating my personal academic abilities, I do find myself having kind of shortcomings in certain subjects. And definitely there is also a huge luck factor when it comes to tackling the DSE, so I was rather surprised when I received the news that I did quite well, much greater than my expectations.

Chan: Right. Icy?

Ku: I am also very surprised with the exam because there are a lot of uncertainties in DSE exams, and we won't know the marking schemes before the result is out. So, that is why I don’t know how good I actually performed. And also because there are a very, very small number of top scorers this year, so the quota is very limited for us. That is why I am also very surprised when I actually get the top score.

Chan: Right. I know both of you had a lot of interviews, either the newspapers or the radios, and I am sure television, especially on an English channel, this is your first time. And I have seen that the photographs that the actual school principal and the president of the council actually took the photograph with you, which is quite a … I think the first time in many years. So, I am sure the school is very excited. There must be something that you have done well, so that you can get such scores. So, Terry, can you share with the viewers, although you have been very humble, you said that luck had a big part to play in it, but I am sure there are some goodness in your studies. So, how did you prepare for the exams?

Lam: I guess another part that played a huge role is your mentality when you go into DSE exams. And, of course, before you start the DSE exam, it is important for you to get adjusted to how exams work. And also another kind of idea is to manage your stress because in Hong Kong, you might have a lot of expectations from your teachers or your families, and therefore you have to find a lot of good ways for you to relieve your stress, although albeit moderately, as you don’t want to overly get engrossed in other kinds of activities. For me, I find myself being able to, let’s say, play some video games every day before the DSE exam, which is a good way for myself to maintain, perhaps, a good mindset, so that you yourself, you are not too stressed when you go into the exam hall.

Chan: Right. Icy, do you feel the stress as well?

Ku: I understand the stress, but personally I don't feel that much stressful because, I guess, I have my own method, which is to learn and revise with my friends. So, by asking questions or sharing notes and exercises with my friends, we are actually having more like interpersonal interactions, so that are helping me escape from the pressures that is given by the exams and the revisions. And I guess also by asking friends questions or teaching them sometimes, it is actually helping us to revise on our own, and to make sure we can remember everything. And so, I guess it is a good way for us to revise. And also at the same time relieving our stress by having more interactions with people.

Chan: Right. Terry, I am sure that your parents love you a lot and supported you a lot. So, how much contribution do you think the parents have in this success?

Lam: Definitely quite a lot because right before the DSE, they didn't really give me a lot of pressure, especially they did not expect me to score very high, not in a negative way. But it is kind of like encouragement that whatever I score, they will be very satisfied with it. And they also had a lot of chances to take me out to dine together, or perhaps cook breakfast for me every morning. So, it is a very simple yet a very profound way of showing support to your child, you know …

Chan: I see your father is here with you today and your sister, I am sure they supported you a lot. So, how much would you attribute your success to their support?

Lam: I guess it is probably half of that because they are providing me with a lot of mental support. Especially because our study journeys are actually filled with COVID-19 pandemic, so we don’t have actually a lot of interactions with the others, friends or teachers. But most of the time we spend with families. So, that is why I believe that their mental support, or their words of encouragement, or just comfort, are actually giving me a lot of like powers to carry on my journey on our own for the DSE exams. So, that is why I believe that my good mentality regarding the exams is actually contributed a lot by them.

Chan: Icy, how about your school, St. Paul’s Co-educational College? How much has it contributed to your success, do you think?

Ku: I am not sure about the percentage, but then they have also contributed a lot, academic-wise especially, because they have a lot of good teachers, and teaching you a lot of skills, like skills sets you need, the knowledge you need, for the exams, and prepare you well for how you can perform in the exams well.

Chan: Right. Terry, would it be different if you went to another school?

Lam: Definitely a bit different because I really owe a lot to the kind of teachers we have at our school. For instance, you know, right before the DSE, I was extremely worried about my Chinese results. But my Chinese teacher was very generous to help me grade my compositions, so to give me a lot of advice, so that I was being pointed in the right direction when it comes to the DSE. And without their help, I wouldn't be able to end up with such good results.

Chan: Right. I know both of you, since you have always been doing well at school, you have always had the privilege to be exposed to the Hong Kong’s systems of gifted education, which I happen to be the chairman of the advisory committee on gifted education. And we have the academy, the Academy for Gifted Education that we went to. So, how much has the academy actually helped you, do you think? Because in Hong Kong, we have 3 levels of support – level 1 and level 2 are school-based; level 3 are the external institutions, like the Gifted Education Academy. Both of you were there. So Terry, can you tell us what exactly or how it actually helped you?

Lam: Well, my experience in joining in the Hong Kong Academy for Gifted Education, abbreviated HKAGE, I guess I joined it when I was in primary school. And since then I have been joining courses through the platforms in HKAGE. For instance, when I was in primary school, I joined the course in like statistics or so, but I guess the content was way beyond the kind of levels you would see in primary schools. And it was really a chance for me to experience what it would be like to step out of the classroom, and explore different kinds of ideas outside of the usual curriculum. And therefore, I guess it is a good way for me to realize that there is much more beyond what you learn at school. And in secondary school, I guess more of what I use from the resources in HKAGE is for joining different kinds of competitions. For instance, in physics and beyond. I guess these courses have really taught me how to do more kind of self-directed learning, so that you actually attain the kind of mindset of lifelong learning. As, you know, the saying goes, wisdom is kind of like not a product of mere teaching, but also as a result of a lifelong attempt to acquire it.

Chan: Right. Since both of you have attempted like local, national, or even international competitions. And Terry, you are a gold medalist in the International Physics Olympiad. And Icy, you had the Star Bright Scholarship 6 years ago, and recently, you presented in front of the Chief Secretary of Administration on your good work. So, how do see all these competitions? I mean would it give you extra pressure? Or how does it help you, Icy? 

Ku: I think the key point for it is actually for improvement because in different kinds of competitions and events, we are actually having an experience to improve ourselves through trials and errors. You are actually utilizing your skills and knowledge you have learned at schools or outside in actual scenarios. So, you need to focus more on probably like critical thinking for debates, and also some presentation skills in public speaking. So, you are actually using the skills you have learnt in these kind of scenarios. And you need to compete with the others, which is also a good opportunity for us to exchange our knowledge with the others by looking at the others’ performance or others’ competitions, so we can learn from them as well. 

Chan: Right. Terry, before the break, I want to ask you a question. Since you are a very good student in physics, do you ever challenges … I mean difficulties when you learn the physics? Or you always … it is so natural that you are a champion at that?

Lam: Of course not. You know, there is indeed a lot of concepts you cannot get, you cannot understand on the first try, and therefore it is a good idea to consult your peers or even your teachers to exchange your ideas, so that you can actually gain a more comprehensive view.

Chan: Right. Let's take a break now and viewers, do stay with us. We will be right back.

Chan: Thank you for staying with us. We have been exploring the question – can Hong Kong's education system produce excellent world-class students. We have Terry Lam and Icy Ku, two DSE champions with us this evening. So, in the first half, Terry has said to us that by playing video games, it really relaxes you, and so that you can get off pressure; and with Icy, you use the method of joining, studying with your friends and talk about it. So, everyone have different ways of relaxation. Before I am going to ask you about your plans, I am sure the viewers would like to know what our champions will do, I want to ask your views about the education system. Icy, as I said last week, I said a lot of people feel that Hong Kong students are being very pressurized, they are pushing for results, it is like a pressure cooker, as you mentioned earlier. Do you agree?

Ku: I do think it is a problem, like a pressure cooker, because the Hong Kong education system is more like exam-oriented, so everyone is working towards a very good grades or the numbers of stars in DSE exams or IB exams. So, that's why I believe that it may be a problem for students not going outside the curriculums to learn more about the subjects, or to explore more on their own interests. Instead they will put more effort on like achieving good scores in exams, so that is I believe that Hong Kong education system indeed have a lot of good professional teachers and professional trainings, but it may be also problems having more exam-oriented, and it is limiting the students’ potentials in exploring a bigger world outside.

Chan: Right. How would you suggest to improve that?

Ku: I believe that we should encourage students to utilize their skills learnt in the classroom settings, and use it in the outside world. For example like, going to field trips and looking into the world, and having more interactive classes. For example, by having debates, by learning language, for example through debates or through drama, or through different ways, instead of only doing papers and exercises. 

Chan: Right. Terry, Icy has said that more field trips, so there is more practical application. You being a physics person, so I have said because you have your prizes. So do you think the physics you have learnt can actually be applied to daily lives?

Lam: Well, I guess there is quite a lot really. For instance, looking around you, all of the kind of lighting equipment around you has already quite a lot underlying principles, or there is even quite a lot of things that you can already deduce from looking around yourself. And you can actually know a lot about the kind of physics you use, and even a lot of daily principles, such as when you look at the weather, there is also quite a lot of different kinds of scientific principles behind. And therefore, I guess studying physics or a certain kind of subject like this, develop a kind of simple scientific literacy for, let’s say, learning about deducing some kind of what you do, let’s say your habits or even, let’s say, to as a way of deducing whether facts you see online are true or not, etc.

Chan: Right, thank you, Terry. And Icy, let's move on to your plans. I have been reading reports of your interviews, and you said you want to be a medical doctor. What makes you want to pursue that profession?

Ku: Firstly because I have taken courses regarding biomedical sciences before. And I found it really appealing to me, so I guess academic wise, it would be a good path for me. And then secondly, it is because the sense of achievement that I can get by curing and saving people because I believe that saving the patient’s life is not only saving themselves, but also by saving their families, and everyone will be happy in the family. And also my goal is to give dignity for the patient to live, not only their life, but also dignity to live and live a good life and living qualities.

Chan: And how do you plan to pursue that? Just studying medicine in Hong Kong and then pursue maybe a specialist field? Any plans at this stage?

Ku: Yeah, I guess I am also going to stay in Hong Kong for medical degree first. And I hope to explore more in the overseas universities, probably for my master degrees or for the specialty training. So I guess that might be in the future.

Chan: Right. You mentioned in the newspaper interview that you want to stay in Hong Kong to do what Hong Kong really needs. So, what do you mean by what Hong Kong really needs?

Ku: So, firstly, for the medical field, like the healthcare system, it is actually having a few problems. For example, like the imbalance between the public and the private sectors, or the shortage of labors in the healthcare system. So I hope that through my own contribution, I can become a petitioner in the medical field. And I also hope to, probably if possible, we can have some policies or some changes in these settings of the medical system. For example, like balancing the public and private services. So, by having these kind of services and changes, so we can change the medical field in the future. 

Chan: Right. Terry, your plans?

Lam: Well, personally, I hope to study science-based subjects in university and beyond. And hopefully in the future, I could become, let's say, a scientist, or something of like an educator or something. These are all possible career plans.

Chan: Right. I also read in the news you planning to go to England, the UK, maybe in Cambridge.

Lam: Yeah.

Chan: Have they accepted you?

Lam: Yeah, I guess because my DSE results are satisfactory and meet their standards. 

Chan: Have you ever considered going to Beijing to study instead?

Lam: That is definitely an interesting idea, and perhaps I may have considered it in the past, but I guess there is also other chances you can explore. And you know, it is only…what I am planning right now is only undergraduate. And of course, there is a lot of other places you can go after that. And there is definitely a lot of places you can consider as well. 

Chan: Right. Certainly I am not teasing you, I am just saying that because a lot of Hong Kong students do go abroad and do very well when they come back. So as you may have watched our show last week, we want to ask you a question – for one of the graduate from Gifted Education Academy before, who is a medical doctor now, Dr Cheng, and she wants us to find out if so-called the youth now see that you have a social ladder, is the social ladder actually being broken? Because a lot of people saying that if you are not well off, it is very hard to break the class barrier? So, Icy, what do you think?

Ku: I think like indeed there are some problems regarding the social ladders. For example, there may be problems like intergenerational poverty, and the students in the like more the unfortunate children, it may not be easy for them to get out of the poverty cycles because their families are not wealthy enough, in order for them to get a good education in the future. Or probably they are even having problems with their basic living. So, I guess they will need to work harder and pay more efforts in sustaining their own life. So, that's why they may not have as much exposures or as many opportunities as the more wealthy classes in pursuing their own dreams or career in the future. But I guess the society is also working to repair the social ladders by providing more free opportunities for these children. But then I guess another problem is regarding the ‘sandwich class’, which may not be like exposed to the lower like welfare, but then they cannot reach the higher standard educations or career ladders. So that's why I guess it is still a problem in Hong Kong. 

Chan: Right. Terry, do you think there is a glass ceiling?

Lam: Well, perhaps like in the issue about the social ladder, you indeed see a lot of ways that the social ladders are broken, in particular, for instance, in some schools like SPCC itself, perhaps some people may think that SPCC does not accept a lot of students from lower backgrounds or perhaps it is a school full of people in the upper class. And this could be a way because in SPCC, perhaps the kind of fees that you have to pay re quite high, and not a lot of students can afford that, even with the kind of scholarships that SPCC provide, it is not a lot or other kinds of free remission. In the aspect of, let’s say, getting into other kinds of academic institutions, sometimes you would also need a lot of extracurricular activities, so I guess in this aspect, there are a lot of kinds of accessible activities, even for those who might not have enough financial capital. For instance, say the competitions, in physics competitions in Hong Kong, it is actually a lot of things like, such as going abroad to compete, it is almost free of charge for us students, as the Education Bureau sponsors some of it. And also you get a lot of trainings for free, and you don't really need to have a lot of money to begin with for these kinds of activities. So, that's why you see a lot of students from different schools, not just you know the top schools in Hong Kong joining these kind of competitions. 

Thank you Terry for your sharing. So, Icy, I am going to come back to ask you – you two being a very good product, very good students from the Gifted Education program that we have in Hong Kong, so what suggestions would you give our committee? What can we do more that more students will benefit? Because Hong Kong, we need more talents. We are always searching for more talents, and we want to enrich them and making sure that we have a gift education for all. So what would you suggest to us?

I think we should extend the aspect of gifted education to more aspects. For example like, we may focus more on STEM or sciences now, but actually in other aspects, like performance arts, visual arts, or even like fashion design, there a lot of good talents in Hong Kong. A lot of students are actually very talented in these areas, but they may not have the…this is not considered as the culture of excellence in Hong Kong, and it may not be the top career in Hong Kong. So, that is why people may be restricted from going into these career. But I guess we should also utilize their talents there, and to provide more opportunities in exploring their interests and helping them to build up their own brands or build their own interests in the future. So, I guess we can have a more diverse communities in the future. 

Right. Terry, you are going to have the last question of the show - you know that Hong Kong finally has a youth blueprint that came out 6-7 months ago. As being in the youth category, what do you consider is the biggest problem in Hong Kong right now? And how do you solve it?

Well, I guess in terms of like youth kind of problems, I guess it is the kind of promotion or the encouragement of diversity among youth decisions in Hong Kong. Perhaps there is different kinds of outgoing paths for many of our youths today, but I guess society indeed imposes some kind of restriction on what they can pursue. And sometimes they’re only looked after when they have good results, for many of our teenagers, so therefore it would be a good idea to pursue more of their kinds of interests, so that teenagers could even diversify their interests, which is particularly essential in today's digitalized world and perhaps a globalized community. 

Right. Thank you, Terry. And I'm afraid we have to end here. As we conclude our discussion, I want to express my appreciation to our guests this evening – Terry and Icy – as well as Manish and Man-shing from last week, for their invaluable insights and perspectives on the challenges within Hong Kong's education system. It is evident that there is a need for an education system that prepares students for the challenging demands of the modern world, and nurtures their diverse talents and potential. Thank you for joining us and have a great evening.