Straight Talk presenter Eugene Chan (left) interviews Lan Kwai Fong Group chairman Allan Zeman on TVB, July 11 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Lan Kwai Fong Group chairman Allan Zeman is on the show this week. 

Allan told us how he felt and gave us his assessment as to whether Hong Kong people are happier now, since we reopened our border six months ago and the economy is picking up once again. He also gave us his take on whether Hong Kong population is really shrinking.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Dr Allan Zeman.

Chan: Good evening! Thank you for joining us on Straight Talk. With us tonight is none other than Allan Zeman, the father of Lan Kwai Fong. Allan came to Hong Kong when he was 19. He has made Hong Kong his home ever since. And 15 years ago, he gave up his Canadian citizenship and got a Chinese passport. He was on Tatler Asia’s most influential list for Hong Kong in 2021 and 2022. He has been the voice for Hong Kong to the international community and vice versa. So, we have invited Dr Zeman to tell us how happy he thinks Hong Kong people are at the moment. Welcome Allan!

Zeman: Welcome Eugene, good to be here.

Chan: Thank you for coming back. 

Zeman: Of course. 

Chan: And Alan, as you know that in the last few years, Hong Kong has been through some challenges. We had the social unrest, then we had the COVID. 

Zeman: Yes. 

Chan: But now we have started a new era with the improved electoral system ...

Zeman: Exactly. 

Chan: … and also patriots administering Hong Kong. The new administration has been in for one year and our chief executive John Lee Ka-chiu was here last week. And he said to us that since we have resumed normalcy Hong Kong people have been happier, more confident and more united. So, you yourself as a prominent business figure in Hong Kong, what are your observations? And do you agree?

Zeman: Well, the chief executive is not wrong when he says many people are happier than they were before. You know, COVID was a very difficult time for Hong Kong, for the world basically. And, you know, people forget, it's only six months since we have been out of COVID, basically, and, you know, but they're going about it as if COVID never happened now. I saw an interesting report the other day, which showed that Hong Kong people are the unhappiest in the last three years than they've ever been. And the numbers they show was Hong Kong people ... it goes to 6.57 out of 10… 10 percent... so that's shows, you know.... and it's between the age of 19 to 24. The elderly, over 65 seem to be happier, because many are retired and what not. But I think that it's taking a while, you know, because many people remember the last three years, where they couldn't go to school, everything was through Zoom, children couldn't play with friends, it was, you know, it was very, very difficult. And so, it takes a while for people to start to get happier again. And but now, slowly, things are coming back. Again, the biggest problem we have in Hong Kong, obviously, is housing. You have 200,000 people still living in subdivided flats. And unless we come up with something that really fixes that problem quicker, no matter what the government says, or anybody else, you won't have happy people. 

Chan: Alright. 

Zeman: And so, my idea is really to come up with some innovative way. Now, China has built new buildings quickly, using MIC, modular integrated construction, which you build the... pillars are done out in factories, and I delivered it back to Hong Kong and put together like a Lego set. So, if we can find a way to be proactive rather than follow the rules that have been... for 75 years, the building rules and planning rules have not changed from the old days. And I think that we need to be proactive now. We're living in a digital society now, the new world, let's say let's give it two years, and we have land, we have plenty of land.

Lan Kwai Fong Group chairman Allan Zeman (right) attends the Straight Talk show on TVB, July 11, 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Chan: Actually the chief executive when he was here last week, he also said that the waiting time from public housing was from six years down to 5.3. So, things are slowly improving. And also the government has launched the Hello, Hong Kong campaign. Do you think this has also helped some of them to feel happier? Because one of the things that John Lee said was that tourism is very important. 

Zeman: Yes. 

Chan: We are now only 40 percent of the pre-COVID GDP. Do you think that helped people to be happy as well?

Zeman: Obviously, tourism has always helped here. You know, especially for shops, shopping, restaurants, you know, everything else. We've been slow to really get tourists coming back again. Other places like Singapore, 70 percent, Macao, of which I'm chairman of Wynn, also is about 70 percent, Hong Kong is about 40 percent right now, it's getting better but it's a lot slower. And that's something that really, you know, when business is good, if people are making money and people are spending then of course everybody's happy or people are happier, but it's a process that's going to take a little time because of the problem of many mainlanders. I really, was not happy with a lot of things that came out of Hong Kong, you know, the airline incident on Cathay Pacific, you know, other things. And so, it's a process. Listen, there's 1.4 billion people across the border, even if two or 3 percent come back, it's a lot of people. So, I think it's a process now after COVID, it because a lot of people in China are still not travelling that much, because they also had a difficult time.

Chan: Right, Alan. I'm sure the viewers will agree with you that housing is definitely an issue that we will talk about later in the show. But that's another thing that we must not have forgotten that in the last few years, there has been a lot of political changes, as I said, now is a new chapter, things are getting better now. But do you think people are getting used to that yet? And how shall we get into the new system? 

Zeman: I think that basically, things are getting a lot better. Listen, I've been an advisor for every chief executive since 1997. Since the handover, I was thinking about it the other day, I've really served every chief executive. Honestly, this administration, John Lee, is the best so far. He's only been there for a year right now. But he's proactive. We're doing things. I have a lot of confidence in him, have a lot of confidence that Hong Kong will get better and better under his rule. Yes, there's a change of system. 

Of course, we're now becoming ... we're part of China. It's 'one country, two systems'. We still have our own system. We're a very, very important part of China. And we must not forget that it's sure it's one country first but two systems is important to China, because we're the window to the world for China, and the window from the world to China. And that's why Xi Jinping came here last July 1st, on 25th anniversary, I was there, to tell us, tell the world that Hong Kong will remain and that system will remain. It's been tried and tested, difficult sometimes come through as a good system past 2047. He believes that it'll continue. And so that's Hong Kong's strength. China does that ... they're 1.4 billion people, we're only 7.3 million people right now. They don't need another 7.3 million people as a Chinese city. We have a common law system. They have civil law, independent judiciary. So, we have things that the West or the rest of the world really trust.

Chan: Allan, I mean, I think you have summarized them very well, I mean, the last few decades, I mean, you've seen through the actual development in Hong Kong is always known for a fast-paced lifestyle, and highly competitive. But Hong Kong people seem to thrive on that. And there are a lot of success stories, including your own business as well. But in the last few months, or even just over the weekend, when I was talking to some friends, it's interesting, there seems to be a sense of frustration among the community, not only just the so-called 18 to 24. They always say Hong Kong has changed. So, what do you make of this? And why is this happening in Hong Kong?

Zeman: Well, I think Hong Kong is in a transition period. Again, I say it's only six months since COVID left us and you know we've lost around 200,000 people during COVID moved out of Hong Kong, a lot of businesses moved to Singapore and other people left. A lot of people are now coming back again, I've just been at some of the consul general's functions, you know, for different national days, and so many were saying that we're now getting so many people applying for visas to move back again. And that's really heartening for me, because you can see it. In general, though, you know, in the office sector is still quite quiet, you know, because there's a lot of space. And so, but that I think will start to fill up soon. And we have more and more mainlanders coming to Hong Kong, to move to Hong Kong. You know, we're trying to attract talent, you know, the talent scheme. Right now. I think they've approved 49,000, yeah. And mostly from the mainland. So, the international community is still slowly starting to understand, the problem is our name. After the last five years before this administration, our name really got trashed, you know, in the world. I mean, I get calls all the time from people. What are you still doing in Hong Kong, it's not safe. It's because there's a Cold War between the West, between the US and China, and Hong Kong is collateral damage.

Chan: Since you are here and before the break, I want to ask you a very good question from the viewers, they asked me to ask you because when we go out for dinners nowadays at night time, a lot of the restaurants aren't full. But the FS has said that our economy has done better with 2.7 percent growth and John Lee said we're expecting between 3.5 to 5.5 which is very encouraging good. And the consumption voucher is coming up soon.

Zeman: Yes. 

Chan: So, I mean how are all the restaurants going, say Lan Kwai Fong, ...

Zeman: I know I've heard a lot of districts, a lot of restaurants and certain districts are slower and businesses are not that good. And I can honestly tell you in Lan Kwai Fong, we've had record numbers. I'm afraid to tell people that because and again, thank God for the ... I just said I'd love that mainland customers ... they are there every day, if you come to Lan Kwai Fong every day, you see in front of the street sign taking pictures, it's showing that they're in Lan Kwai Fong and sending it back on Weibo or other social media to China and then going out to spend money and some of them spend big, big, big money compared to some locals, so I say I love the mainland customers.

Chan: Right, okay let's take a break now and we will be right back.

Allan Zeman (right) gives his take on whether Hong Kong population is really shrinking. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Chan: Thank you for staying with us. The chairman of Lan Kwai Fong, Dr Allan Zeman is with us this evening. And we have been getting his gauge on the level of happiness amongst Hong Kong people currently. So, Allan, in the first part of show, you told us that things are getting better at Lan Kwai Fong, the visitors are coming back. And you have also encouraged us to be more patient because it is only like 6 months since we have the COVID sort of, the mask lift off, and partly return to normalcy. The one thing that I haven't really talked about in Straight Talk is the actual people leaving Hong Kong. I mean if you look at some official figures, they said between mid-2021 and mid-2022, Hong Kong’s population has fell 1.6 percent, from 7.41 million to 7.29, and further to 7.26. 

Zeman: Correct.

Chan: And it was reported that over 100,000 people have left Hong Kong over 2021 and 2022. So, these people must be not very happy. And do you think this has settled down? And if you ask people around, there is definitely more people have left than that number, what do you think?

Zeman: Honestly, Eugene, a lot of people are now coming back. You know, many people left because they took their kids out of school during COVID. You know, the schools were closed; they didn't see a future for their kids. They were worried about Hong Kong, Hong Kong was changing. All the things and that with the administration, some of the decisions that the administration was taking were really quite draconian for some people. And so compared to what they had in the west, and so, they just moved their families out of here. And it really, really was hurting me actually. I used to argue with the last administration all the time. But whatever, we are now in a new era with new people. And we do see a lot of people moving back again because Hong Kong continues, we have that strength. As I said, we are the window to the world for China. And that is our strength. You know, we are only, as I said, 7.2-7.3 million people right now. And so, I am not concerned because schools are back. And I have been here over 55 years. In 1997, it was the same thing, so many people were leaving. The Fortune Magazine had an article titled “The Death of Hong Kong”. 

Chan: Yes, I remember that.

Zeman: And there was a front page and all that. Well, we are here 26 years later, and I can tell you Hong Kong has not died. It only gets stronger and stronger. And so, as China grows, Hong Kong grows along with it. No matter what they say in in foreign countries in the West or whatever, they all have to come back. You know with all the BS that has been around, if you look at the trade figures last year between China and the US, China had 6.2 percent surplus in trade over all the years with the US. So, politics, business people, one thing I learnt a long time ago, business people don’t like politics, they like to make money, they come where business grows. So, Hong Kong will continue. You know, there is a lot of negativeness, we have to solve problems. As I said earlier, the biggest problem is the housing problem. But the more and more people move back. We have so many, all the top bankers here, financial services here, so many new things are happening and going forward with this government. You know, Hong Kong will become a data center, it’s just announced for the Greater Bay Area. The other thing that people don't realize, Eugene, is the GBA, the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area. You talk about 11 cities, the key cities – Hong Kong, Macao, Shenzhen, and Guangzhou, as the key cities, and 7 other support cities, all within 1.5 hour radius by high-speed rail. Hong Kong to Shenzhen is 14 minutes on the train. And so we really … 86 million people, in 2021 they had a GDP of $1.9 trillion, the 9th largest GDP in the world, larger than South Korea, larger than Italy, larger than many, many countries. That is where Hong Kong is part of. And with our “one country two systems”, we will only get stronger and stronger. That is the future for youth. Youth are unhappy because they don't see a future at the moment for themselves.

Chan: Right. Allan, I mean you have given us a good summary of what is happening and we should all be very optimistic. But one area that we must not overlook is our tax revenue last year has dropped from HK$18.3 billion, it is a lot of money. 

Zeman: Correct.

Chan: And because we have 370,000 tax payers fewer than before.

Zeman: Correct.

Chan: So, do you think the government should be worried about this?

Zeman: No because I really do see, if nobody was coming back to Hong Kong, then I’d be worried about it. But listen, let's talk in a year or two, and you will start to see the return of figures. As I said, the world is just recovering, you know, the world is a mess right now. And our trade figures are down, everyone's trade figures are down because throughput is not the same as before. So, it is taking time, you know, you have a war in Russia and Ukraine, the world is really a mess. And so we really need to get … and we will get back again. The strength is the ASEAN market, the Arabian. John Lee just went to Saudi Arabia and Dubai and UAE. And these countries now are opening … Saudi Arabia with their minister of IT was just in Hong Kong, and they are now thinking about opening a trade office here to pass business through Hong Kong. So, there is … we are doing the right thing, China and Hong Kong are really doing the right thing, looking at new markets, developing new markets. They are the largest oil producer in the world.

Chan: Right. Allan, since you just mentioned that Hong Kong needs to get back on our feet, and hopefully things will be normal very soon. But unfortunately, some of the western media are still portraying Hong Kong as not having freedom, all our rights are endangered, what are you doing to Hong Kong, they asked well have you seen what’s in Hong Kong. And also, especially recently, there was this song that went up and that they are trying to ban. And also those 8 warrants that we issued. I mean I think Hong Kong government has done the right thing, but people are using that again to tarnish us again. So, what can we do about it? I mean we are doing the right thing, put people, put things in justice.

Zeman: All I know is in actual fact, I know a lot of those 8 people unfortunately, I warned them. And they went abroad right now, and they are causing a lot of negative news about Hong Kong to all those so-called western countries that are using them as pawns to say how bad Hong Kong is, because that is not the real picture of Hong Kong. We have plenty of freedom here in Hong Kong. And so that is one thing that I actually support of what the government has done. And I know many of the leaders, but if you look at the other countries that are criticizing, they are not better, I can pick out a lot of other things of the western countries. And so, this is really something that we need to have national security, the national security law which everyone criticized really, really brought stability back to Hong Kong. 

Chan: Right. Allan, I mean you mentioned a very strong statement earlier – business people look at things where there is money … 

Zeman: Yes, exactly. And they don’t quite like the politics. 

Chan: So, with all the negative publicity over the last few years, intended or unintended. Have you seen any deals, say, from the international companies, actually falloff because of that?

Zeman: Not so many. I see many, many new companies coming here. And even Paul Chan just returned from Shanghai, and now talking to many, many start-ups that are thinking now of opening up in Hong Kong because the “one country, two systems”. And so there is going to be a whole new batch of things. Also, I was just reading this morning that for start-ups, Hong Kong is number 2 in the world in startups, in technology.

Chan: So encouraging!

Zeman: Yes, very, very encouraging. So, there are, I know there is a lot of negative news out there, but really and truly, if you look at what is happening behind the scenes, things are really moving in the right direction. 

Chan: Right. Allan, you are sort of very reassuring to us because actually the US Consul General Gregory May said that the number of US citizens actually has bounced back reversing the trend.

Zeman: Exactly. I was there.

Chan: Yes, right. Recently Hong Kong has also been in the news, especially in the sporting news because the proposal of taking back part of the Fanling golf club.

Zeman: Correct.

Chan: And because they want to build the public housing. I mean there has been a lot of discussions in the community to say that public housing is more important. 

Zeman; Yes.

Chan: But, however, I mean some people have asked me to ask you because they are quite concerned because the Middle East countries are the places that we want to do business with. And if we are going to not … I mean working together for promoting Hong Kong, especially sporting events, like the Aramco Team Series and LIV Series next year, are we saying that they are not welcomed in Hong Kong?

Zeman: Honestly, I am not a member of the golf course, I declare that I have never been a member of the golf course, I don't play golf basically, I am too busy. But basically, I think it is wrong. I think that really and truly this is something that started, who in their right mind, would have chosen a 130-year-old heritage site that is a golf course to build public housing, at which originally was going to be 32 hectares of land, it is now down to 8.5 or 9 hectares of land, for 12,000 homes that they were going to build, now maybe they will be able to do 5,000 or 6,000 homes. And so, of all, nowhere the world, that is a laughing stock of the world if we go through with this. We have got plenty of land to build 12,000 homes, even Heung Yee Kuk just gave some other land that they had near the golf course. I think it is wrong, and I speak out very, very strongly against it because for us to show the world that we are back … you know, if you open up CNN or some of the other channels, Fox News, whatever, and all they have every time in sports, the first thing is golf, and what not … you know, we get over 400 million viewers around the world watching during the Hong Kong Open. And so, these are the things that are really important, and especially since sporting is a big, big thing. In the west, you have heroes in sports, actually in Europe as well, Lionel Messi, David Beckham, you know. And so, people worship, and it makes people happy.

Chan: Yes.

Zeman: And so Hong Kong itself was starting to get some swimmers and fencers and all that, and getting stars, but we need to develop. And to have a 130 year old golf course is really something that we can have pride in. And again, I am not a golfer, but I think it is wrong, and I will continue to fight. We can find new land to build that.

Chan: Allan, last question: some people said this is basically a class divide thing, do you agree?

Zeman: No because I am saying, you are going to build 12,000, right now you can only build 5,000 or 6,000 homes. I will find you land, I will personally, if somebody wants, I will personally find land to build 12,000 homes, not 5,000 or 6,000 homes in the same area if they want. As well, there is a narrow road, I went out there to look at it, there is a narrow road, and there is the Northern District Hospital now. If God forbids, somebody has an emergency, and you will be stuck in traffic with more houses there. It is the wrong place. And the only thing I can say is somebody must have had a vendetta against the golf course to choose that of all the land. No planner in the right mind would come up with something like that, nowhere in the world. We would be the laughing stock of the world, I really believe and I am the one, I am pushing for public housing, I just talked about pushing for sub-divided flats and all that to get rid of that. So, I am not trying to take it away. And open up the golf course 7 days a week to non-members, to anybody who wants to come. And so, that is really something that everybody can play, so you are not dividing rich or poor at this point. 

Chan: Right. Thank you, Allan, for sharing your views with us. We hope that his views and comments will be given some consideration for future decisions that will be made for the happiness of all Hong Kong people. Have a great evening and see you next week!