Salla Tuominen, president of Zonta International, is on Straight Talk this week to talk about advancing the rights and opportunities of women and girls.

A third-generation Zontian and member since 2005, Salla says there's still some way to go for women's rights to be more equal with men. In particular, she says, two issues – violence against women and climate change – must be tackled with more urgency.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan Kin-keung’s interview with the president of Zonta International, Salla Tuominen:

Chan: I’m Eugene Chan, and this is Straight Talk exploring with Salla Tuominen, president of Zonta International, how Hong Kong can be a happy place”.

Zonta International is a global service and advocacy organization dedicated to advancing the rights and opportunities of women and girls. Salla is a third-generation Zontian and a member since 2005. An accomplished attorney in international corporate law, she has held nearly every leadership role in the organization, from district board to international director, vice president, and now president. Her vision is to weave sustainability and inclusion into Zonta’s strategy and keep the organization a credible, influential voice for gender equality worldwide. Salla, welcome to Hong Kong!

Tuominen: Thank you!

Chan: I must ask you, is this your first time in Hong Kong? And how has Hong Kong been treating you?

Tuominen: This is actually my second time. But the last time I saw it was a long time ago. So, I can see that a lot has actually changed since.

Chan: Right.

Tuominen: But both times, Hong Kong has treated me very well. People have been very welcoming and friendly, and everything has been very, very pleasant.

Chan: Right. You know, every place in the world does change over time.

Tuominen: Exactly.

Chan: And when you say changes, what have you noticed?

Tuominen: Well, at least there are many more buildings and higher buildings, what I remember from last time, even totally new areas, but I cannot really remember.

Chan: Right.

Tuominen: Yes. So, there have been a lot of developments.

Chan: Right. And you are now the president of Zonta International, having a big job on your shoulders. I'm sure you have to travel. And we just had a conference here about like 10 days ago. And for the viewers who may not know Zonta, I mean, what is Zonta and why do you come all the way to be the supporter of this district?

What is Zonta?

Tuominen: Well, Zonta International is a global human rights organization. We build a better world for women and girls. So, women and girls are at our core. We are global, currently approximately 26,000 members across the globe in 65 countries. We do service, different types of service projects, together with the United Nations, various agencies around the world. And we also do a lot of advocacy. And advocacy is really about changing the attitudes of the public, but also making changes for legislation, which will affect everybody, but of course, especially women and girls.

Chan: Right. And you are from Finland, right?

Tuominen:  I'm from Finland, yes.

Chan: Yes. And I'm sure you have quite an international mixture of nationalities on the board.

Tuominen: Correct.

Chan: Let me ask you, when was Zonta actually formed?

Tuominen: 1919.

Chan: 1919.

Tuominen: Yes.

Chan: Wow, nearly over 100 years.

Tuominen: Yes, more than 100.

Chan: How has the mission evolved over the last century? Because I'm sure, as you said, places change.

Tuominen: Right.

Chan: People change.

Tuominen: Right.

Chan: Has it evolved? How has it changed in the past?

Tuominen: Well, I believe our mission as it was, and it's still… it’s as topical as it was 106 years ago, but, of course, we have different focus areas. Perhaps in the past, we have been more emphasized, for example, very, very basic rights, for example, of access to education. It is still important, and it's still not perfect all around the world. But we also have, in the current world, another kind of challenges, like, for example, violence against women or climate change, which are affecting the girls and women disproportionately compared to men and boys.

Chan: Right. So I'm sure all, every organization, as you say, will change over time because different things have happened, but there must be some core values that sort of drive the organization going. And I can see having a lot of ladies in Zonta will definitely be the thing that sort of catches my eyes.

Tuominen: Right.

Chan: I must ask you, pushing for women's rights, I'm sure if you look at the results now, they come to 100 years ago, I must say, you guys have been very successful because we had a lot of national leaders who are ladies. In Hong Kong, we had a chief executive, and in Hong Kong, actually, we have a lot of government servants, or actually leaders, who are women. Has the same been observed in the rest of the world?

Tuominen: To some extent, yes. In the long run, of course, women's rights have been able to be taken further. But unfortunately, if we take a look about very recent years, we can also see that there have been all kinds of setbacks, for example, COVID. COVID or the current state in the world where the kind of very traditional values are getting back. Now we can also see that there have been a lot of decreases in, for example, foreign aid, which typically decreases the opportunities for the projects, which are assisting women and girls, and overall, kind of an attitude towards women's rights. And I think that I will cite here the secretary general of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres who said this, I think, a year and a half ago, that actually his generation didn't take the fight, that actually the younger generations will need to take the same fight again.

Chan: I see.

Tuominen: So, we can see that there is also, even though in the long run, and in the big picture, when we are talking about, let's say, 100 years or 150 years, of course, we have seen progress, but now we can also see that there are some setbacks.

Chan: Before I'm going to ask you next question, since you’ve raised this up, what will you see as the most imminent challenge right now, that you can see that you must fight, or else leave it to a next generation, isn't going to be a good idea? What would that be?

Tuominen: It's a good question. I think there are actually quite many of those, but I would like to raise up violence against women, because it's really, really, kind of frustrating: all the opportunities, and another one is, of course, climate change, which might affect the very core things about human rights.

Chan: One of the reasons why I'm so happy to have you here, and the reason why the title today is “How to make Hong Kong a happy place?” … because you're from Finland and I just confirmed, which has been named the happiest country in the world. For the viewer's interests, Hong Kong actually ranked 88th out of 147. So, we are below average.

Tuominen:  Right.

Chan: So, what are the secrets? How can you be so happy? I mean, at least you're smiling already. So, what is it?

Tuominen: I'm a happy person, but in the larger context, I guess with Finland, it comes to basic equal rights in kind of broad terms. When it comes to gender equality, of course, it's about education, it's about opportunity in society. And I think those are really, really important things. It's about freedom, it's about freedom of speech. And what makes Finnish people very happy is, of course, nature.

Chan: Right. The nature of the people or the nature of the place?

Tuominen: Nature of the place. It's a very important place for all of the Finns, and we want to really secure and protect it.

Chan: Right. Can you tell the viewers what type of climate you actually get? I mean, Hong Kong, we've got four seasons.

Tuominen: Right.

Chan: And some Asian countries have a lot of summer.

Tuominen:  Right.

Chan: If you go to some European countries, it's a lot of winter. So, what's Finland like?

Tuominen: Well, perhaps we are associated with those, mostly winter countries, but we do also have four seasons. And winter can be rather long, especially in the northern parts, like a half a year basically, or so. And we can also say that nowadays, we can tell the difference to the earlier days. In my childhood, it was more, kind of, clear what the various seasons are. Nowadays, it has, kind of, become a little bit more mixed, in a way.

Chan: Exactly, the climate change you're talking about.

Tuominen: Exactly, exactly. So, sometimes winters are really cold and tough, sometimes they are very mild, and then, on the other hand, also the summers can be very nice, Finnish style, or very, very hot, which is unbearable for us.

Chan: Right, I think there's something that we happen to have in Hong Kong with the typhoons as well.

Tuominen: Yes.

Hong Kong & Macao District 17 Conference

Chan: In your conference, the keynote that you delivered was “Making the world a happy place for women and girls”. It sounds great, but how are you going to plan to bring it into fruition? I know you're going to give ideas to our leaders in Hong Kong. How do we do it exactly?

Tuominen: Well, that's a good question. Everybody, I believe, is looking for happiness in their lives. But I think when we talk in the Zonta context about this, it's really about safety, and opportunities.

Chan: Right.

Tuominen: And having these opportunities for everybody makes one feel safe, having been able to contribute and achieve their full potential. So, it really … I think that those are the two very core items.

Chan: Right, before we go to the break, I mean, I want to identify two terms, you just mentioned, gender equality, and also women's safety. How would those two factors show that the people are not happy overall? How would that affect it?

Tuominen: Well, if you need to live in the fear of violence all the time, and as you know, violence can be in all kinds of forms, it doesn't need to be physical, but it can also be mental, it can be sexual, it can be financial, it can be in all forms. You cannot really be happy when you are all the time, kind of, pushed against a wall.

Chan: Right.

Tuominen: Someone is following you or you are not able to live freely. That really, really comes back to human nature. We want to be free.

Chan: But how about gender equality? How would that make you happier?

Tuominen: Well, of course, everybody is equal. No one needs to push anyone down. No one needs to either lift anyone up as such. It's a balance.

Chan: I must ask a very silly question. If there's more gender equality, will the other side, who's always been dominant, will they be unhappy?

Tuominen: I don't think so, because actually, equality brings everybody more balanced in their lives. I mean, and societies would work better when we do not forget, for example, when we're talking about women, half of the population.

Chan: True.

Tuominen: So, I mean, it actually brings everybody to the same table.

Chan: Right. Alright, time for a quick break now, and we will be back with more Straight Talk.

Chan: And we are back with more Straight Talk with Salla Tuominen, the President of Zonta International, on how Hong Kong can be a happy place. One note I have definitely taken from your sharing is that we must make our ladies happy because you said half of them are ladies. I am sure our mothers, our other halves, your friends, or your workmates …

Tuominen: Your daughters.

Chan: … yes, nearly. So, we have to look after them. And when that happens, everyone will be happy.

Tuominen: Exactly. Very simple.

Chan: I think that is the key. Very simple, isn't it?

Tuominen: Yeah.

Chan: In Hong Kong we are very, I would say, fortunate because it has already been proven that we had a female chief executive running, and being a chief executive. And also our convener for the Executive Council now, Regina Ip, is also a lady. So, do you think Hong Kong still have a challenge for gender equality after you have been here for the last few days?

Tuominen: Yes. What I have heard from my fellow Zontians, of course, me, I am not any kind of a Hong Kong expert as such, but what I have been discussing, yes, there are still these kind of traditional things. I mean of course, finding the work and family life balance, it is still very much on the shoulders of women, taking care of the kids, at the same time taking care of the family, taking care of the, perhaps, the elderly, their parents, and same time being in the professional life. Of course, everybody wants to be perfect, and it is a kind of burden. So, we could find more balance between the parents in the families.

Chan: Right. So, you have met many people, especially successful leaders in the world who are women. And for our women audience, what would you advise them if they want to be a leader? What type of qualities do you think is important for this?

Tuominen: I think it is important to be bold and tell what you want. What are you wanting? What are you willing? What are you aiming to achieve? And what can you bring to the table so that everybody can understand? Sometimes, we ladies are a little bit kind of taking back and just expect everybody else to understand how good we are or how good we could do some things. But sometimes we just need to be more vocal and tell that actually we can also do this, we can also take care of this.

Chan: Right.

Tuominen: Let me show you.

Chan: Right. There is a saying that men are from Mars, women from Venus, or the other way around.

Tuominen: Right.

Chan: Do you agree?

Tuominen: Sometimes, unfortunately, so.

Chan: Right. Anyway, when you focus on expanding opportunities for women, how can we ensure the men are being included and also making sure the pendulum won't swing too much to the other side? If in one century, you have been pushing more, which I totally agree, but sometimes it can go too far to the right. So, how can you ensure that?

Tuominen: Yeah, of course, and the balance is critical. And we will need to understand that, first of all, I think that we would need to have more males who are more vocal about the issue. So, it is not anymore women's issue, it is actually the whole society’s issue. But at the same time, we, of course, will need to take care of boys and men, and give them the room. And many boys and many males also would need encouragement to be able to show their feelings, which is not actually the current world in many cases. So, it is kind of both ways. And showing to boys and males, that they can actually also achieve more when they are given these opportunities to stand by women and girls.

Chan: Right. I know that you have members in over 60 plus countries and regions, including Hong Kong, of course, and Zonta has been there since a long time. In Hong Kong since 1972, over like 50 odd years. So, what specific projects are you advocating right now that you think Hong Kong should be playing a big part in?

Tuominen: Well, I think actually Hong Kong and whole District 17 here in this regional area have been doing very well, in alignment with our Zonta international projects. We do have projects about gender-based violence once again, which may relate to climate change, which may relate to child marriage. We also have some educational programs, and we do have projects related to climate justice and how to actually make the communities taking more responsibility locally on such matters. And, I think, Hong Kong Zontians, as well as everybody else, in this region have been doing very well in identifying opportunities to assist in all of these areas of women and girls.

Chan: Right. When you talk about violence, I mean, before the show, I asked my friend, the Zonta District 17 director, Winnie, and she said to me that while we don't see a lot of violence, actually, it is present in the community.

Tuominen: Right.

Chan: Maybe you can use this opportunity to let our viewers know what exactly is meant by violence. Sometimes it could have been done unintentionally, without harming people, without us realizing. So, maybe it is a good time for us to share, tell us a bit more on violence. I mean for the viewers, you would be happy to know that before the show, I asked our president when you are being the happiest city or country in the world, do you see a lot of violence? He said yes, quite apparently so. So, I said there is no perfect place, and Hong Kong people should be very happy, we don't get as much violence as reported. So, maybe you can share your experience on what types of violence you experience and how we can prevent that?

Tuominen: It is a tough question, of course. Various types of violence. I mean, of course, when we are talking about violence, we usually think about physical violence.

Chan: Yes.

Tuominen: It is kind of a very straightforward, and no need to explain as such. But then there are all kinds of mental violence, bullying, putting down, financial violence, not being able to use money in the family, for example, for other partner’s needs, or very much restricting how the money in the family is spent with. Well, sexual violence goes to the same category as physical violence. I believe we unfortunately need to read about it quite a lot nowadays. So, it is … and there are many more, I mean, so different kinds of forms of violence. And, unfortunately, quite many as you mentioned of these may be hidden. They are not something that we can identify on the streets. But globally, one third of women, one third of all women, have been somehow faced with gender-based violence. It is a huge, huge problem. And even if it wouldn't be so much shown in the in the titles of media, it is there. It is unfortunately everywhere; there is no such country which could have been able to find a solution for that. And what can we do? I think it goes really much back to changing attitudes. Why are we accepting violence in the first place between men, between women, or between men and women? Why would we accept such behavior, first of all? And I think it really, really goes back to these traditional things. And also not being vocal enough that it doesn't mean that violence is only happening somewhere amongst, for example, the poorest people. It is everywhere in every social class in society.

Chan: Right. So, President, while I fully respect what you have said, I must speak up for the men as well because not only the women got told not to spend money, I am sure, many times, the men are not allowed to spend money according to their other halves as well. I am just bringing this up.

Tuominen: Could be, of course.

Chan: Could be?

Tuominen: Could be, of course. But it is finding the balance.

Chan: Right.

Tuominen: Yeah. Sure. That is what we always try to do.

Chan: And I have read up the research that people, women having no decision power in their relationships, are 25 percent more likely to be experiencing physical violence. Have you seen that?

Tuominen: I have also read these statistics.

Chan: Right.

Tuominen: Unfortunate statistics. And at the same time, as you mentioned, I am coming from a country which is the eighth consecutive year as the happiest nation in the world. We also have a huge problem regarding violence against women. And unfortunately, Finland is also ranking and topping the rankings when it comes to violence against women, being the second in Europe at the moment. So, unfortunately, I have seen and I have heard a lot.

Chan: Right. So, let's move on to another area that someone has been trying to work on, which is youth development, especially with the girls and ladies to be leaders as well. I know you have invested heavily into nurturing young leaders through Z and Golden Z Clubs, Z meaning in high schools, and Golden Z with the colleges.

Tuominen: Correct.

Chan: What exactly do you do? And how can you encourage the girls or the ladies in those clubs to do better? How do you do it?

Tuominen: Various clubs actually do it in very different ways. And we have not wanted to direct in it too much or govern it how should it be too much. One solution does not fit all, I believe.

Chan: True.

Tuominen: And it is in a global organization, even less so. So, there are actually quite free hands for the clubs to decide how they want to do it. But what I know from their projects, there are a lot of service projects locally to understand the mission and vision of Zonta, for example, gender equality-related projects on the very local grassroots level. There might also be in some leadership mentorship projects, which would then lift these girls and women up in their school or in their other environments, to become the leaders of the future.

Chan: Right. One last question for the viewers in Hong Kong: how do you see Hong Kong itself as an international place for developing business or even for ladies to excel? What do you think?

Tuominen: For me, it looks actually very positive, and having a lot of opportunities. But I do not know what the truth really is, behind my gut feeling as such.

Chan: Right. So, thank you, Salla, for sharing about Zonta International with us. This evening, we have heard that true happiness isn't only about prosperity. It is about equality, opportunity, and community. A happy city is one where everyone is valued and every person can reach their full potential. Thank you for joining us on Straight Talk, and have a good evening!