Thomas Flohr, founder and chairman of Vista Global and VistaJet, is on Straight Talk this week. He explains to us the reality of business jet travel and how Hong Kong can continue to thrive as an Asian business travel hub.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Thomas Flohr:

Chan: Good evening, and I'm Eugene Chan and this is Straight Talk. This evening, we are doing something a little different. We are taking our conversation onboard an aircraft. We are joined by a true pioneer in the world of business aviation, Thomas Flohr, founder and chairman of Vista Global and VistaJet. What began in 2004 with just two aircraft has now grown into one of the leading global name in business aviation, connecting every corner of the globe with a strong background in finance and technology. Flohr has redefined private jet travel. Having had a successful career in computing and finance, he founded his own investment firm, Comprendium Investment SA. His vision then led to the formation of Vista in 2018 which consolidated the fragmented aviation industry to offer a complete range of services worldwide. Welcome to Straight Talk, Thomas! And thank you for taking us on one of your aircraft.

Flohr: Great to have you on board!

Chan: I'm sure for most viewers, being able to sit on the private aircraft is sort of a dream to come, or what we call a ticket too far and is often associated with the life of the rich and famous. So, maybe you can tell the viewers, is that a true statement? Or has it changed recently?

Flohr: I think it's changed a lot. This is maybe an image from 10 or 20 years ago, of the movie industry. This is really a business tool for the most important business people around the world. They can go to different meetings around the globe in the shortest period of time. Very, very efficient. They can use this airplane as an office. It has high-speed internet, etc. And from a pricing point of view, think about it. Even if you put 10 people on this aircraft versus 10 first or business-class tickets, it might even compare similar in price, but in the end, it's all about business efficiency, and that's what private jets offer.

Chan: Right. I see that most people, when you talk about private jet, they think of personal travel of some of the tycoons they may need to go to one place with their families they want additional security or additional privacy. So, how does business aviation work in that sense? I mean, how has it evolved in recent times?

Flohr: I think this is probably a slight misperception. We're doing over 100,000 flights per year at VistaJet.

Chan: Really?

Flohr: And I can say that about 80 to 85 percent of all travel is really totally business-related. And then, of course, the tycoons, we all work seven days a week. And maybe on the way, do we stop somewhere for two or three days for private purposes and relax a little bit? Could be. But the rule of the thumb is that 80 to 85 percent is business-related, the rest 15 to 20 percent leisure leisure-related.

Chan: Well, I'm sure the viewers will be very pleased to know that a lot of businesses are actually happening behind the scenes. Now when you talk about business travel, we know that businessmen work very hard. They often go to commercial flights. They go to business or even first class. How does this business aviation … what other additional advantages does it offer to the business people?

Flohr: Well, I think time-saving is really the most important one. It starts with a check-in process. You can arrive at the airport maybe five or 10 minutes before your departure and you’re airborne. These airplanes give you total privacy. You can conduct your meetings on the way, high-speed internet connects you. You can have your Zoom calls. You can have your video calls on the aircraft, but very, very often two companies do business, but they're not, maybe connected in two major hubs. These aircraft are really connecting point-to-point on anywhere on the planet. And commercial aircraft are usually flying from major hub to major hub, and then you need to change aircraft, and it costs you much more time to actually get to your destination. And then at the other end, of course, how you have to go through the normal airport procedure, whereas here you get off the aircraft and you can go straight to your meeting in a much shorter period of time. So, it's time-saving. It’s efficiency on the aircraft left complete privacy and you’re point-to-point connection to any point on the globe.  

Chan: Right, Thomas. When you talk about sort of business travel, we often think of the businesses must be doing, or thriving … people who sort of they need to catch up with the time. So, would you say the … what will be the sort of a key driver of this business rule for the recent actual pandemic, with all these infections going on, would this be on the driver that sort of gives it a push to the private business aviation?

Flohr: Well, you look at our numbers from 2019 to 2024, we tripled.

Chan: Tripled?

Flohr: We had tripled our numbers between revenue, EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization), the number of flights we actually performed. And yes, I mean, the health aspects were significantly driving business to the private jet business. And sometimes it's a slight misperception in the world, there are 24,000 corporate jets in the world. If you think about it, the market is a lot bigger than people usually think about it. And then you think about government organizations around the world, we are flying a fair amount, as Vista, of governments. Do they really need to own an airplane, or do they subscribe to a business, such as ours, in a much more cost-effective way? Even for government trips where maybe an ambassador needs to go to an urgent political meeting somewhere, that is what we facilitate around the world. So, I think we all need to think a lot bigger in terms of what this market is and what it represents, and that's really what we're serving, right?

Chan: Because sometimes when you think about the world now, with all this home aspect internet going on, with Zoom meetings, you think people, they can actually stay in their own place and then do sort of a virtual meeting, but actually telling the viewers that it actually is not a full story, a lot of people still need to meet face to face.

Flohr: Well, people … business is being done between people. Politics is being done between human beings. And Zoom can square away a fair amount of, you know, maybe some rudimentary tasks that need to be resolved over a digital call. But at the end of the day, nothing replaces the true connection between two human beings, and that's what we facilitate in the most effective way.

Chan: Right? When you talk about a lot of 24,000 jets flying around, there's quite a number. What would be to say, from your own experience at VistaJet, what would be your sort of typical demographics of your customers, where they're from mainly?

Flohr: Well, I mean, geographically, about half of the business is North America and half is the rest of the world. But it’s really Vista connects on any continent. So, whether it's in Australia or in Asia, here in Hong Kong is a huge hub for the company. We've been here for actually more than 15 years. So, you see, typically, the demographics in the CEOs and chairmen or the entrepreneurs, the family offices are actually very, very important client base. And as I mentioned earlier, and government institutions.

Chan: Right. Would there be any sort of popular destination? Will Hong Kong be one of those?

Flohr: Hong Kong is definitely a major hub that we are serving, but again, it is getting to that remote destination at the other end. There is a big, big traffic and big trade. Vista really follows the trade routes or where trade is being done. If you look at Greater China, all the business which is being done in Africa, for example, that we are serving right out of this region here. And again, some of the commercial connections within Africa are not as efficient as we might see on the major route. So what you see is typically a trip from here, let's say, into Africa, then two or three more stops to visit more countries or more facilities, and then coming back as soon as possible.

Chan: Right Just now, you mentioned about 80 to 85 percent are actually people travel for business, but there are also people travel for their own leisure purposes as well. Do you see the trend sort of moving, also improving in terms of numbers as well, apart from the percentage?

Flohr: I mean, we as a company, we've been consistently growing about 20 percent per year. So, we're … And we still take market share from full aircraft ownership. And so I would say that the business part is growing at about the same rate as the leisure part.

Chan: Right, and when you talk about people being sort of more aware of this possibility, what would be the advantages offered to someone who wants to go for a leisure holiday? Why would somebody want to take a private jet with a 20 percent increase per year? Well, look, I mean, some of the pleasure destinations are quite remote as well.

Flohr: Oh right, exactly. You might, you might have to take two or three planes until you get to the final destination. I think what CEOs and families are looking for is optimizing the little time they have for the family, and then making sure that in a scenario where they might have to leave for an urgent business meeting, that the private jet can take them rather than having to eventually wait for a commercial airplane to take them out of the destination. So, it's really that flexibility and efficiency also driving the leisure business.

Chan: Right, Thomas let’s take a short break now but viewers, stay with us. We will be right back.

Chan: Welcome back! We are on board one of VistaJet's private jets with Thomas Flohr, the company's founder and chairman, talking about the business aviation sector. So, Thomas, on the first part of the show, you told us what business aviation is all about and the business people will find this very helpful because of the connectivity, and be able to meet face to face, which is very important for business or even politics. And even you gave a good suggestion for the government officials to use this service as well. So, thank you for giving us all this information. And you also mentioned about for leisure travel people can go to a more direct destination. So, let's move back to Hong Kong, where we are based right now. Hong Kong has long been a leading aviation hub in Asia. And what is the market size or the potential for business aviation, in particular Hong Kong, from your point of view?

Flohr: I mean, Hong Kong is still the number 2 city in the world in terms of accumulation of wealth. And wealth usually comes along with, you know, very, very important decision-making, very important business leadership, global leadership. And, I mean, we couldn't be happier that we are, since more than 15 years in Hong Kong, we have a whole team here that is looking after our Asian clients. So, Hong Kong is a very, very important aviation hub, as you said. And out of this hub, we are flying basically covering the entire Asian client base from here in Hong Kong.

Chan: Right. Have you seen sort of an increased demand, especially during COVID?

Flohr: Well, massively increased…

Chan: Massively?

Flohr: … massively increased. And what we are seeing is that we continue to take market share from what we call the full aircraft ownership. So, if you look at Greater China, and I share some statistics with you: since 2017, the number of business jets in Greater China decreased by one third.

Chan: Oh, really?

Flohr: Down by more than 30 percent, whilst our market share, we increased by more than double. So, full aircraft ownership is down, but the simple subscription model, which basically gives you access to a fleet of 300 airplanes, just rather than buying one airplane. We offer guaranteed availability, exactly like owning an airplane, but on a much more financially affordable basis, and guaranteed availability 365 days a year. So, there are many aspects where we see that this business model is really successful in this market specifically, and in Asia overall.

Chan: Right. I think what you are aiming to do is give all the businesses an alternative to be able to tap into this potential of private jet travel, whereby all the good points you have mentioned. And say for Hong Kong, I mean, what are … you said it has increased in the last few years, and look at Hong Kong as the regional hub, geographically, what are the sort of factors go sort of, in sort of process for Hong Kong to grow this type of business?

Chan: Because we need to be an important aviation hub, and also as an international financial center. What else do you see in Hong Kong that sort of places Hong Kong on the map even further?

Flohr: Well, I mean Hong Kong in general, you just see it. We just came off Art Basel, as one of the big events. There is a … big concerts with a new stadium, etc, etc. So, Hong Kong has become more and more like the real global center of not only for business but also for exciting experiences. And the world is focusing on that. And for me, Hong Kong is still one of the, if not the Asian city, cities that is connecting the world. And the vibrant effect, the vibrant life, when I arrived late last night, I couldn't wait until the morning sunlight came and I just felt this incredible energy in this city that is driving the businesses and driving people to come here.

Chan: Right. Thomas, I mean recently we had the Rugby Sevens in Hong Kong, and I had the privilege to be in the stadium. And I see many people that say to me “Hong Kong is back”.

Flohr: I would definitely confirm that.

Chan: Right. In the last few years, there has been much talk, even in Straight Talk, we know that there is actually a sort of negative sort news, sort of saying Hong Kong is no longer the same as before. But looking at your figures, things are coming back. So, when you meet with clients in the rest of the world, do you still hear those comments or you think people sort of concentrated on Hong Kong’s vibrancy and be able to do business in the region?

Flohr: I haven't heard that and I wouldn't agree with that. I think any city is developing, and I think it is a great opportunity as Hong Kong develops and continues to develop. And if you look at the infrastructure the city has, if you look at where it is geographically, etc., it is truly a global leading city and it will be for that for a very, very long time.

Chan: Yes. Thomas, I have also heard from some of my friends who happened to be able to travel on private jets, said to me before, they had problems of booking sort of landing or departing time, or even finding a slot to leave Hong Kong. And with the third runway recently in Hong Kong, has it helped the situation?

Flohr: Absolutely, absolutely. In the pre-COVID phase, we had significant issues with that. But I think the infrastructure investment that Hong Kong has done and with further plans, which I was told are basically now approved that the Business Aviation Centre is getting a lot more space. So, again, Hong Kong is leading with a long vision of how important the business aviation sector is for the city and the greater area with its infrastructure investments, and those days are behind us. And that is why more and more we are actually using Hong Kong as the place to go.

Chan: Right. And as I am sure many of Hong Kong … viewers who listen to you, watch Straight Talk know that we have constant and regular competition from places like Singapore, even Dubai. And what does Hong Kong need to do to kind of solidify its position as Asia's premier aviation hub? Anything you would suggest to us?

Flohr: Well, I feel that they just need to do more of the same. I think the foresight that the city has in terms of its infrastructure, its offerings, etc., makes it an extremely attractive city. And I mean, let me give you an example. Yesterday we had a client from India stopping in Hong Kong for a couple of hours on the way to Los Angeles. And you know, it didn't stop in Singapore, it stopped here.

Chan: Oh, thank you.

Flohr: And a very world leading figure. And again, the easiness of travel and the welcome mentality that exists is really driving this kind of like vibrant energy that we feel in the city.

Chan: Right. Thomas, we do have a lot of government officials who watch our program, and it will be a perfect timing to tell them if you see any regulatory or any operational challenges so far in Hong Kong when you sort of trying to promote this type of, for businesses sort of, connectivity.

Flohr: No, I think it is the awareness of and welcoming a business model that Vista has created, that you don't need to buy an asset to have the efficiency and the benefits of a business jet at a fraction of the price of owning a jet. And I think, you know, the more people in important positions that know about such a subscription model, although we are here since 15 years, so we are since a long time committed to this to the city, I think the better it is. And I think what has recently happened with those infrastructure investments really resolved that bottleneck that existed pre the third runway.

Chan: Right. Definitely very reassuring because we want to be sort of a connecting hub for many things in Hong Kong, our businesses, our education, all that has a very good place in the world.

Flohr: And think about it, right? I mean, business jets usually bring the biggest spenders to a city.

Chan: Exactly.

Flohr: And by definition, we transport the wealthiest, most influential people. And I think it is their impression, the first impression in and the last impression out, how efficient actually a city is handling the private jet business, is a very important aspect of the global view that these business leaders have. And I can only say that this is right on the spot. Last night for example, I landed at 1 am and within 45 minutes I was in my hotel room. This is, you know, through immigration, immediately out in the car. So, super experience!

Chan: I think in Hong Kong, I mean the hospitality industry is quite used to early arrivals, as compared to other cities like London, I remember going there and you really have to wake somebody up to look after you. Before we go on any further onto the bigger mega thing we want to talk about, I want to ask you. I am sure the viewers by now, you are getting very excited about this private jet travel. To be realistic, how much more do they have to pay compared to a commercial air flight to enjoy this privilege?

Flohr: Well, I mean, again, it depends on how many people are traveling. If it is one person, we charge the same price if one person is on board or 10 people are on board, so you will never be able to ultimately beat the price of a commercial jet, it is normal. But you have all the flexibility to go and exactly depart when your meeting is over or when you need to be at the other end on a non-stop basis. So, it is really a question of how many people fly, if you compare it to the ticket prices that would accumulate on a commercial flight.

Chan: Right. And how safe is it to travel on a private jet?

Flohr: Well, I think it is an important aspect. We know who we are flying. And as I said earlier, those are some of the most important people around the globe. And safety is an absolute highlight feature of Vista, and how we have performed over those now 21 years. And there had to be a new safety level created called the Platinum Standard in those 21 years of the levels of safety that we perform our flights in.

Chan: Yeah, but let's look globally for business aviation. What would be your projection for the upcoming decade? And what would be sort of the key driver for this to sort of be able to reach more people, hopefully become more and more affordable?

Flohr: Well, this industry is growing at about double GDP. So, if the GDP grows 3 percent, this industry typically grows about 6 to 7 percent per year. I think we see a continued transformation from CAPEX versus OPEX. What I mean by that, rather than buying a jet, you just pay for the hours you need. That is a shift that is happening more and more. I think the global connectivity with aircraft, such as this Bombardier Global 7500, really makes it non-stop because before this airplane existed, it is about 17 hours of range. You had to stop somewhere, and then maybe the commercial was easier. So, we see more and more that global hub to hub, and actually point-to-point connectivity that our clients are asking for.

Chan: Right. Thomas, if you want to have a wish list, the biggest wish you want, so that everybody will be able to enjoy this private jet with all the advantages, what would it be?

Flohr: Well, look, I think awareness is the most important one. And I think there are still people out there who say, “Well, if I want a business jet, I need to buy one”.

Chan: Okay, that is a start.

Flohr: And I think communications like we are having today and your deep questions you are having about the industry are the right ones. And I think the biggest wish list is that the 24,000 business jet owners know that there is a true alternative. And actually having access not to one airplane, but to 250 or 300 of them. And important is they are all identical, and they are guaranteed availability. You call on it, we deliver.

Chan: Right, thank you, Thomas, for sharing your insights and also for our viewers to peek into this world of private jets. Business aviation is more than just luxury, it is a growing industry, shaping global business and connectivity. As Hong Kong pushes to be Asia's leading aviation hub, will that include being a key center for business aviation too?

Until next time, I am Eugene Chan, and thank you for watching Straight Talk.