Straight Talk presenter Eugene Chan (left) interviews Hong Kong Undersecretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Clement Woo Kin-man, May 16, 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Undersecretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Clement Woo Kin-man is on Straight Talk this week.

Woo discussed and debunked certain misunderstandings of the latest District Council Reform, explaining how the new structure, despite a lower representation from geographical constituency, and the chairman of the district office can better serve the community.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Clement Woo.

Chan: Good evening! Thank you for joining us on straight talk. Our guest is the Undersecretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Clement Woo Kin-man. Woo was a member of the Tai Po District Council from 2016 to 2019, and has been dedicated to community and youth services over the years. He has participated in various government statutory and advisory bodies, including the Family Council, and the Basic Law Promotion Steering Committee. He has a background in engineering and has run manufacturing, trade and investment companies locally, on the mainland and abroad. This evening, Woo is going to talk to us about how improved district administration can build a better community. Welcome, Clement!

Woo: Thank you, Eugene for inviting me to your program.

Chan: Right. So, we understand that the government has announced proposals on improving governance at the local level. 

Woo: Yes.

Chan: On May 2, and the period of consultation actually ended right on today. It is evident the government is very keen to engage the community, as many viewers would have either seen advertisements in the newspapers, television, posters or even being approached by keen individuals on the street, asking for their support. How would you say the community's response, given with all that happened in the last few years, the COVID, the riots … how has the response been from the community in the last two weeks?

Woo: The government noted the enthusiastic views expressed by the general public during the consultation period. And we are grateful for the support from the general public and expressed by various sectors of the communities like the political groups, and association of the societies. And we also met LegCo members to explain to them the proposal and the reform in detail, etc. We welcome the views, and we will continue to listen to what the general public says about the proposal. 

Chan: Right. You know, with Hong Kong people have seen the transformation of our political structure, with the implementation of the patriots administering Hong Kong, and improving our electoral system, the evolution of the District Council is basically much anticipated. But the consultation has just been taken, I will say, in a very short period, like a matter of two weeks. Is this enough time?

Woo: Well, at the consultation will carry on … although the consultation lasts for only two weeks, but you know, there’s still a long way to go. We will introduce the bill, it will go to the Legislative Council and the views expressed by various parties and various sectors in the community will continue to come to the government and we will keep listening to those views.

Chan: Yes, we understand. But some have been quite critical, saying there’s been too short of a period, giving a sense to people that just want to rush through the agenda, rather than a really true consultation. But on the other hand, the government has definitely, as we said earlier, put a lot of effort into publicizing it. So, obviously, they want the public to know more about it, as you said.

Woo: Oh, yes.

Chan: So, what are your thoughts on this? I mean, I'm sure you have your overall plan of the … you have to go through the LegCo, be a bill and be implemented. Is it also a time factor that we’re having a short consultation.

Woo: Sure, because there is an imminent need to reform the DC. As you know, the District Council will end its term by the end of this year. 

Chan: Right.

Woo: And we are aiming to have the new or the seventh term District Council starting the first of January next year. So, if you look at that timetable, we hope to go to the Legislative Council by the end of this month, and to complete the legislature before the recess of the Legislative Council. That is before the summer recess, so that we will be able to hold the election by the end of this year, and the next term and the new term of the district council will be in place, first of January next year.

Chan: Right. Thank you for clarifying it. So, basically, the two weeks sort of fit into the sort of master timescale. But consultation’s still continuing.

Woo: Oh yes.

Chan: Right. The District Council had undergone quite a bit of evolution since they were formed in 1982. At that time, they were comprised mainly of appointed members and government officials. But gradually, more and more of the councilors are being elected. The new proposal seems to be, to some people, reversing that direction, because sort of more people are being appointed, which seems quite a drastic change. And you’ve got to understand why the public will see this as quite a regressive step in, or a setback for democracy. What is the government's response to that?

Woo: Well I think we have to look into what actually happened in the sixth term District Council, this term. And I can use a chaotic situation, use the word chaotic, to describe what happened especially in the beginning of this term. And you know, many members of the district council interfered with and obstructing the government's administration, by deliberately dividing the community, creating confrontation and having no regard whatsoever for people's livelihood. You see that. You know, we all saw that, especially in the beginning of the term. Some of them even advocated Hong Kong independence.

Chan: Even District Councilors?

Woo: Oh, yes, they encouraged black clad violence, they opposed the National Security Law. You know, we all saw that happen. So, you know, let me cite a few examples. Acts including smearing the police force in their speeches, evicting other district council members who opposed them, detaining government officials who attended the DC meetings, not allowing them to leave the district office conference room, introducing unreasonable and biased terms, you know, when vetting and granting funds to some of the activities, blatantly funding the propaganda organizations that glorify black clad violence, abusing public resources, by letting their office as polling stations for the so called primary elections. Some DC Chairman's even openly claimed in the meetings that, they wanted to seize political power. All these examples show that DCs were completely out of control. And that's why, you know, we need to do a reform. These acts not only adversely affected the delivery of district services, but also pose a significant national security risk.

Chan: Just when you cited all those examples, sort of scenes of all that we saw on television, just come flashing into my mind. It makes a District Council a very political structure.

Woo: Oh yes, too politicized.

Chan: So, is the District Council supposed to be a part of the political structure?

Woo: Well, if you talk about constitutional development, you know, we have the election of the Chief Executive, the Legislative Council, and the Election Committee. According to the Basic Law, Article 97 of the Basic Law, district organizations can be formed as consultative bodies, you know District Council is one of these kinds of district organizations. They are not organs of political power, they can receive the consultation from the government on district administration matters, and to deliver district services in culture, in recreation, and in environmental sanitation. So, you know, this is the rightful positioning of the District Council.

Chan: Right. So, Clement, with the reform that … I mean you have listed out the rationale, the reason why we have to do a reform, almost 40 percent of seats will be appointed by the chief executive.

Woo: Yes.

Chan: A similar number will be from the area, crime fighting and firefighting committees, and only 20 percent of the seats will be by election as before. So, can you tell our viewers how this new design will benefit the Hong Kong residents? I mean, it might definitely improve district administration, all the things you have said, I'm sure won’t happen again. But how can that build a better community as the locals say?

Woo: Well, I'm sure the community would benefit from a new reformed District Council. As you mentioned, and district councils, if we have a variety of people who can join the District Council by various channels. In the past, you can only elect those who actually run for the elections. But there are many people who love the country, who love Hong Kong, who would like to serve the district and the community wholeheartedly. But they didn't want to join the … you know to go for a so-called direct election. But these people who are talented, who are very experienced in the district, who have their own expertise, can be appointed, can be, you know, can join the three committees that you just mentioned, the area committees, the district fight crime committees, the district fire safety committees, and through the nomination, and the election can join the District Council. What you just said is the same argument that we always had.

Chan: Oh, yes. But I have no doubt about the people that the government will appoint or by election currently. But how can you ensure the views will be as well reflected by the new DC as compared to the past District Council?

Woo: Well, in the past, for example, the sixth district council, as you can see that the district council members, directly elected, but are they serving the community wholeheartedly? No. They're just politicizing everything. So, would the people in the district, will the residents in the district benefit? No. Your question, you asked me, would the people in the district benefit from a reform of the DC? I would say yes, because they will be served not just by those councilors elected or returned by a geographical constituency, but they will be returned by appointment, they will be returned by ex-officio, as in the past, the 27th … you know, the rural committee chairman, and nominated and returned by the district area … district committee constituency. So, they will be served by people from all walks of life with talents, with expertise, with experience or with a heart who would like to serve the country, Hong Kong and the district.

Chan: Right, but Clement, let's take a break now. 

Woo: Okay.

Chan: Viewers stay tuned, we will be right back.

Undersecretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Clement Woo attends the Straight Talk show on TVB, May 16, 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)

Chan: Thank you for staying with us. We have been talking with Clement Woo about the reasons behind the new proposals for improving the district councils, and how they can build a better community. We will continue to address some of the questions that have been raised. So, Clement, in the first half you have reminded us what happened in the beginning of this term at the district council, the chaotic scene that I am sure many viewers, like me, having all those flashbacks in their mind. And that you are confident that with the new composition, the views of the people will be reflected.

Woo: Yes.

Chan: One of the things I have noticed is, if you look at the number of constituencies in the geographical election site, has reduced from 452 right down to 44. In the past it was well over 90 percent for direct election, now down to just under 20 percent. So, let's look at it the pragmatic way. If each member has to cover a large area as compared to before, how does it … would this make it really challenging for the residents to be able to find which councilor to approach? And how all the little issues can be addressed?

Woo: I would like to reiterate that in the current sixth term, there are 479 district council members.

Chan: Right.

Woo: And after the reform, the next term, we are looking at 470 district council members, return from different channels. So, if you look at the numbers, they are more or less the same. And we would like to stress that not only those district council members return from district council geographical constituency would serve the general public, but all the other district council members would serve the general public together. So, we are looking at more or less the same size of district council members, people can actually go to and serve, and they need to serve too. We have introduced performance monitoring mechanism, just to ensure that all district council members, not just only the directly elected, the so-called geographical constituency, but from the DCC and from the appointed, from the ex-officio, they all need to go to the district, they all need to serve the general public, the residents in the district. You know, investigations based on this mechanism, investigation may be initiated against DC members whose behavior do not live up to public expectations. And the DC members are expected to be more forthcoming, and they need to serve everybody indiscriminately. Unlike in the past or now, you know some people just serve those who hold the same political views, and then disregard the others. They can't do that from now on, so people can go to many district council members, they are not only their geographical constituents, not only their own district. But they can go to the whole district, every district council member from all walks of life, from all kinds of professional, different types of expertise and experience, they are ready to serve you.

Chan: Right. Clement, when you are talking about all the district councils, I am sure all the viewers will feel your sort of enthusiasm of yourself, and also the government trying to undo some of the not-so-good things that has happened in Hong Kong, and try to build a better Hong Kong community. But one thing I must … I am sure many viewers will have in their mind and I am going to reflect what they are saying is, in the past district councils are seen to be the sort of the beginner level of the political structure, although it is not should be political structure, should be a constitutional body. They always felt that it has been preoccupied by the pro-establishment camps. You were a district council member.

Woo: Oh, yes.

Chan: And people saying that the typical 4 words are “you have the snake soup”, “you have the vegetarian meals”, “you have mooncakes”, and also “you have the dumplings”. What that means is in order to lure the support from the residents to vote for them, they organize all these meals and making sure everybody are kind of having a good time. Will that still continue?

Woo: Well, to me, service to the community, you know there are many kinds of service. My experience is that the things that you just mentioned are just part of it. Mostly people come to me when I was the district council member, they are talking about … they were trying to ask me to help them solve their own problems. Their housing problems, their own family issues, the kids’ education issues, legal issues sometimes. You know we ask some voluntary lawyers to come to give some short time voluntarily service, so that the people can … you know they come to us for various kind of things. Those kinds of things that you just mentioned are just very small part of it. And I think that from now on, there won't be different kinds… from now on only those who love China, love Hong Kong and love their district, can join the DC. And apart from that, there won't be any other difference, so, I think that the residents in the district, they would find the district council members more helpful, and would serve them wholeheartedly, not politicizing everything.

Chan: Right. That is something that I am sure we all look forward to, a more harmonious community. We mentioned earlier there are two areas I am sure the viewers would like to know more. It is about the appointed members. You know in the past through the evolution, appointed members have always been in district council as well. But given to what has happened, and I am sure people will look forward to the government appointed, well qualified and with high-caliber individuals, on the district council member as their appointed members. But having district council on kind of the beginning level, I won’t use the word “lowest” level inside the community, how are you confident you will be able to get good people that you have selected and be an accepted appointment?

Woo: Oh, I am confident that the government will appoint, and the district committee and constituency would return good people, talented people to serve the district councils, and then they will progress further. As you can see, a lot of appointed members in the past, now became legislative councilors, and even government officials. There are many. So, I am sure the government will find ways, and the government knows, and the government notices that so and so many people have been serving the community for so long.

Chan: Will you call that the district council will be … to assume its advisory role? More or less be a sort of be like all the advisory boards and committees that we serve in Hong Kong? Will there be appointed sort of similar caliber individuals?

Woo: I sincerely hope so. You know from all walks of life, different kinds of people. And in the three district committee constituencies, and as you can see there are many different kinds of expertise, many kinds of different people, are appointed. Principals of schools, and the representative for residence incorporated owners or owners committees, and then representative of the local district merchants associations, and of course local organizations. You know they are all from all walks of life, and they know their districts well. Many of them have served their district for decades, of course some young people too. So, the government has ways to find those to locate them, to appoint them, and to let them join the district council to serve the community.

Chan: Right. Clement, another area that has attracted a lot of discussion within the community is the appointment of the so-called new district council chairman.

Woo: Oh, yes.

Chan: We used to have a district council chairman and vice chairman, but now it is only left with the chairman. And it is going to be … the position is going to be the actual government district officer.

Woo: Yes.

Chan: To be that position. And many people say if that is the case, the district council will be like a rubber stamp, basically the government is going to do whatever they want to do. That is the view someone has expressed. Is that true?

Woo: Well, I have to say again that, you know, district council, according to Article 97, is a consultative body, not organs of political power. So, if you are saying that “well, it is a rubber stamp”, no, of course, because we come to consult district council members. The District Council members go to the general public to get their views, and deliver district services. So, the relationship is like that. And if the district officer become the chairman of the district council, he or she can actually do a much better job in collaborating and organizing the district service because he knows well. He or she was the chairman of the district council. He is also leading the care teams in the district, there will be 18 district and many care teams who are actually delivering service to the residents in the districts. He or she is also leading the three committees: the area committee, the district fire safety committee, and the district fight crime committee. So, he or she will be organizing the district plans, so that the service can be delivered to the people in the district more effectively and efficiently.

Chan: Right. I am going to have a quick question and a quick answer from you: how would you suggest the residents, with the new reform, best utilize the services of the district council?

Woo: Go to the district council members, there will be one around you certainly.

Chan: Right, okay. So, I am afraid that is all the time we have. And thank you, Clement, for outlining the rationale behind the proposals for district council reform. The consultation will be considered by the legislative council during the debate, and we look forward to the finalized version. Thank you, viewers, for tuning in and we will see you next week.